[Aziz]

Cst4Ms4Tmps4 said:

OMG! Tough one!

I say DMDM Hydantoin. But of course EWG says it is deadly. My only preservative is DMDM Hydantoin. I am too frightened to even try other eco, green, safe, organic, natural ones. I am waiting for my good self and others who use my DMDM Hydantoin-laden moisturiser die painfully!  >

pH between 4 and 5…This one is easy. You probably can use a mixture of Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Gluconate (or Glucono delta Lactone or Gluconic Acid). Add in Salicylic Acid if you feel adventurous.

Very natural. Very board spectrum. Very approved.

Erm…Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate as natural and as edible and as ubiquitous as they are, they have their own warnings and countless users’ complaints.

Even Glycerin/Glycerol whatever one believes, thinks, heard, seen ‘safe’ there is always warnings and complaints.

There is always somebody allergic to something. Likewise, there is always someone (politically correct crazy) sensitive about every single bloody dayum thang.

Sodium metal per se is lethal. Chlorine gas is deadly. Together they become Sodium Chloride, table salt, very safe to be touched and eaten. BUT….but it can be very bad if used concentrated. Glycerin is like that too. So does this mean EWG should also put table salt and Glycerin in the danger zone? I won’t be surprised if they already did!

Oh, Glycerin is also used as an anti-freeze! We’re gonna die! Table salt can be used as anti-freeze as well! Both of them are commonly used to reduce or totally eliminate crystallisation of sugar (in baking) and lower down freezing point. Hence, anti-freeze is born! We’re certainly gonna die!

Hi , I don’t boder natural . In shampoo and conditioner I like to use DMDM . Please let me know , can I use MPS along with DMDM for broad coverage ? 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

Most moisturizers are useless in rinse off applications.
They have too little time to act to do anything useful before being rinsed off and end up in the drain.

Cationics, i.e. some Polyquaternium, PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate or Cocamide DEA may have some modest skin conditioning or refattening properties, but make sure they don’t leave a sticky afterfeel.

Polyquate 7 leave a thin film like feeling on skin . I think if it is used in face washes it may leave a comedogenic affect on face . 

[Aziz]

amitvedakar said:

which ingredients are useful as moisturizer for face wash?

one in mind is Glycerin.

PG, Vit. E. Acetate, Arbutin are they useful?

Ph=5 to 6.

Other ingredients are  Glycollic acid, Sles, CocoBetain, Polyquote-7, coco amphoacetate, cocoamide DEA,  GHTC, Preservatives.

Deep cleansing without drying skin possible?

Why Polyquate 7 ?

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

That preservative(phenoxy SA) is the worst of all I have ever had. I am not talking about it’s efficacy but the way it messes with overall formula. If you are ordering from makingcosmetics, get Paraben DU also known as Germaben II. There’s also Germall plus that is great for surfactants.

Hi , is DM DM hydantoin and MPS are compatible to use for better coverage on shampo and conditioners ? 

[Aziz]

EVchem said:

@Aziz normally I would agree, but the specific type of alcohol mentioned has pretty stringent definition- 40B is cleared for cosmetic use in 21 CFR 76

I’m not an expert but I don’t think there would be much variation of this between sellers
https://www.ttb.gov/industrial/industrial-alcohol-denatured-alcohol

Personally, I think any ingredient you can prove identity of, and substantiate safety for seems permissible in US cosmetics (provided you aren’t making any non-cosmetic claims about it). 

Hardware stores sale Methylated spirit which is ten percent methanol mixing with ethanol and pyridine and some colour dye
 to make it undrinkable .
For cosmetics use , you need denatured alcohol . 

[Aziz]

EVchem said:

@David08848 I know brenntag offers it but I think they typically sell in totes- the place I work has bought just a drum but that was before my time. If you wanted much less (pail amount) you might look around at hardware type stores

Is it safe to use alcohols from hardware type stores . I think it should be pharma grade . 

[Aziz]

Belassi said:

It is meaningless to class acids or bases as “harsh”. When used to adjust pH they form harmless salts. Sodium hydroxide and chlorine, suitably combined, product table salt, a key item in our diet.

Balassi Sir , this is my point also , it is a neutralization reaction .  
But in this thread Gunther claimed that if citric acid is used as pH adjuster it will cause Sunburn . Is citric acid really caused ‘ sunburn sensitive ‘ as he claimed if it is used as pH adjuster ? 

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

Thank you @Aziz. I will have a look.

Waiting for your opinion.  

[Aziz]

luiscuevasii said:

Belassi said:

I’ve done that reaction but only with sulphuric acid, you will have to try it for yourself.

HI belassi, como estas?. Thanks you very much

What material is  ‘ como estas ‘ ? 

[Aziz]

Perry said:

Here’s one from the book Poucher’s Perfumes, Cosmetics and Soaps

I’ve never made it.

Nice to see , you have mentioned the name of Poucher’s Perfumes, cosmetics and soaps .  . It is one of my favourite books.  

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

My point is

Wouldn’t strong mineral acids like Hydrochloric, phosphoric or sulfuric acids look too harsh on an ingredient label?
Even if they’re used in tiny amounts, some customers who know no better would get scared just by reading that.

Therefore I’m considering acetic acid which is found in vinegar, which some people apply vinegar on their skin.
Concentrated acetic acid smells nasty, but we’ll see if the finished product does when diluted.

As far as I know vinegar is not recommended for adjusting skin pH . Your first point doesn’t make any sense where you claim that citric acid make skin more sun burn sensitive.  What FDA told about AHAs is , when you use these as exfoliating agents and with lower pH or as peelers , it may cause sunburn or photosensitive.  The tiny amount of citric acid will not cause any sunburn . We always use NaOH to adjust pH though it is very harsh . Like NaOH Citric acid or lactic acid will not do anything when you use it as pH adjuster . 

[Aziz]

Stability and characterisation of Emulsions in the presence of colloidal particles and surfactants . 
by 
Roman Pichot 

[Aziz]

Perry said:

@Aziz - well, when diluted out in a formula it’s perfectly safe. It’s like using NaCl as it dissociates in Cl- and H+ ions.  The less safe part is during production.  But if you are making a batch in a lab you can make a 1% HCl solution and that is fine to use.

Thanks .
Can we use it like AHA or BHA in skin care products  or we can use it to adjusting pH  like NaOH ?

[Aziz]

Perry said:

Phosphoric acid
Hydrochloric acid

Is using HCl in cosmetics safe ? 

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

Yep, a guinea pig here who tried: low pH 20% LAA (freshly made stored in the fridge), 10% Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, 5% MAP in combination with 2% Alpha Arbutin, no forms of vitamin C above do anything to reduce freckles even when applied religiously for more than 2 months. If it actually reduces pigmentation it’s not because of vitamin C.

Please go through this study where it claims up to 20% LAA has a signifigant rule in depigmentation using along with soy and licorice . 
I don’t know if it is biased research or not , but it clams a lot about LAA .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673383/

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

What’s acid slurry?

Another name of LABSA . 
90% acid slurry , 96% LABSA . 

[Aziz]

Search the threads , you will get a lot of discussion .

[Aziz]

Add CAPB 3 to 4% . CDEA 1 to 2% . Add a preservative . 

[Aziz]

@Perry @ngarayeva001 @Gunther Here is a panacea for ” one in all formula ” of dish wash liquid which contains Alovera,  Glycerin,  Vitamin E , Pantenot and many more from happi.com . In fact it is a premium dish wash liquid.  

To create mild and skin friendly dishwashing liquids, use SLES with three moles of EO like Pilot’s Calfoam ES-303. Cocamidopropyl betaine can be added for improved mildness. Other amphoterics like sodium lauroamphoacetate can also be used for mildness. Aloe vera, vitamin E, panthenol, glycerin and other herbal extracts can be added to the formula for skin care benefits in premium products. Essential oils, such as lavender and rosemary, can be used for aromatherapy benefits. Triclosan is commonly used as an antibacterial agent. To claim antibacterial/antimicrobial efficacy, the product must be registered with appropriate regulatory agencies such as FDA and EPA.

https://www.happi.com/issues/2011-03/view_features/formulating-manual-dishwash-detergents/

[Aziz]

Pharma said:

Capric and lauric acid would be better insect deterrents (see for example HERE) than myristic acid but you might have to up the % . BTW capric acid stinks and you won’t just get rid of parasites but also of all your friends! :smiley:

Does it has H₂S like odour or worst ? Will Tea tree oil enhance its insects repelling job ?

[Aziz]

Kurian_Zach said:

Trying to make a water based insect repellent spray but the result is creating a separation. 
Here’s my formulation. 

35% water (distilled)

20% Oil A

20% sodium lauryl sulfate

10% Oil B

10% Oil C

5% myristic acid

Phase A

Mix the oil A,B and C together until uniform.

Phase B

Stir the myristic acid and sodium lauryl sulfate into the water.

Mix phase A and B together. 

Any suggestions on what I can do to avoid separation issues? 

Thanks. 

Here which one will repel insects ? 

[Aziz]

I didn’t mean moisturising,  I mean non irritating and no unwanted feeling on face after wash . 

[Aziz]

@ngarayeva001 it is just an idea and general guide line and also customers compliance and overall marketing strategy. 

When you design a product you have to consider 1. customers problem, 
2. Solutions 3. Product positioning and marketing strategy.  
   I am working with hand wash,  shower gel and face wash for a long time . 
For face wash below 8 to 10 % is better.  Here pH is very important.  If it is not pH valanced and well formulated  after wash one may feel harsh and hardening (uncomfortable ) effect on face . After wash they want a smooth feeling even without applying any oil and cream .

The purpose of a hand wash gel is to remove mainly oil and fat and carbohydrate  after meal . In our region we take oily and fatty food. They also want smooth feeling and quickly removing of sleepery effect . 
I use PQ 7 at . 001% . Higher usage feel a coat on hand . 
I do a blind study with some sensitive skin and brand users. My finding is pH above 6 is unpleasant for hand wash with sensitive person or skin (?) . Also Some guys can’t differenciate between hand dish wash and hand wash . 
In case of hand wash 12 to 15 % active is enough.  
In our region a 250 ml hand wash is nearly  $1 . 
A 750 ml shower gel is above #8 . 
So it is also a marketing strategy as well as customers demand to formulate a shower gel diffrently. From a shower gel customers want good foaming , sleepery effect a very good pleasent scent where as in a hand wash it is necessary to ensure odour neutralizing scent . 

@Perry We all know that they are basically same,  though we make differently for business.  
I personally use all four of them for any purpose when I required it . 

[Aziz]

Perry said:

Or there is no difference.  Certainly no major differences.  Really, these can be exactly the same formula marketed in a different way.

For example, there is no scientific validity that a hand wash needs a pH range of 4.4 - 5.8 and a face wash needs pH 4.5 - 5.5

These numbers are essentially arbitrary. Same with pH of shampoo and shower gel. 

In fact, you could make a single formula and call it a body wash, hand wash, facial wash, or even a shampoo.

@Perry , these are not arbitrary numbers at all . Please test a hand wash which has a pH above 8 and a pH of 5 .  I see the difference between a pH of 5 and a pH 7 in a hand wash in blind study . pH 7 makes hand surface hard for a while . For smooth hand wash pH should around 5 . 
At least three text book I read where strictly recomand pH of shampoo is 5.5 to 6.2 . If you want I can show you the screen shot . 

In our hands there are residence bacteria which mantains our hand’s pH valance , which is around 5 . 
 In every text book at first they discuss about skin physiology , pH of diffrent organs . And after every formulation they mentioned pH range in text books . If pH was not important we need not to study skin physiology . 
In case of shampoo high pH may cause of hair loss . 
It is new to me that pH ranges in skin care products are  ‘ arbitrary ‘ numbers . 

[Aziz]

MurtazaHakim said:

My formulation for the liquid hand soap is as follows.

1. SLES (70%) - 10 %
2. CAPB (30%) - 5 %
3. CDEA - 2% 
4. Glycerine - 1%
5. Salt - 2%
6. Dye - q.s
7. Fragrance - q.s
8. Citric acid - q.s
9. Water - to 100 %

Note: All the percentages are weight percentages.

I am encountering an issue with this soap, it leaves a sticky residue on the hands and the foam does not vanish even after a rigorous rinse. After going through multiple sources I doubt that the formulation has insufficient surfactants. There must be a minimum and maximum percentages for each of the above surfactants. Please provide any resource for determining the proper percentages of surfactants which would result in a commercially acceptable product.

Best regards

Deduct CDEA and reduce Glycerine .