[Abdullah]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” it already has 
%0.9 glyceryl caprylate

%0.12 caprylhydroxamic acid
%0.05 sodium phytate
%0.1 tetrasodium EDTA
%0.4 citric acid 

I don’t have Euxyl 9010 available but i have Geogard 221. By the way, wouldn’t it become too much preservative and cause irritation? 

pH is 5. What do you suggest the pH to be? 

I don’t know about bergaptenes. We use it at %0.25 and it gives a good smell. That is enough for us.

[Abdullah]

I haven’t tried Dimethicone, Titanium dioxide and Propylene glycol but the rest i have tried and it is not drying at these ratios for me. 

[Abdullah]

What is the percentage?

My HEC is completely clear at %0.5

[Abdullah]

When i was using cationic guar in Shampoo at more than %0.3, the feeling was not good. 

[Abdullah]

For large batches you should print the formula, write the amount of each ingredient, weight and prepare each ingredient separately, recheck, better by another person and then start the production without further thinking or weighting. This way you will be %100 sure you make what you want to make. 

If you prepare one ingredient and add it and then prepare another ingredient, there is a chance you make a mistake. And in lage batches mistakes couse a lot of pain. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks a lot.
We filter the water and when enough filtered water is not available we purchase and use mineral drinking water which are being sold in Bottles.
In this batch 50kg was mineral water.

These two parts produce red color in a few hours when in contact with Shampoo, we have seen that when cleaning the materials. And i am sure some of the color is from this. Just want to know is there any bacteria, yeast or mold that produce red color when contaminated with?

If not safe as Shampoo, can we use it for other things Like floor cleaning, surface cleaning, car wash, dishwashing, clothes washing or anything else?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Yes - the whole batch. “Broad spectrum” is the marketing hype offered for every preservative and that is very weak system - esp. for a shampoo.

I did add %0.1 tetrasodium EDTA and % 0.03 citric acid as @chemic@chemicalmatt said and mixed the whole batch. pH is 5. It hasn’t produced this red color again since two days. 6 people including me have used the shampoo after that and it has no irritation or smell or any negative effect.

What if we sell this batch in discount directly to consumer? We can sell all directly to consumer to be used faster and not be stored in shops. We can sell all in one or two months. 

Scraping 500kg Shampoo would be painful ???? for a startup company.

[Abdullah]

@ozgirl yeah
there is a mild orange color produced in each batch but i thought it may be from orange essential oil.
Does this interaction reduce the effectiveness of preservative? 

[Abdullah]

Benz3ne said:

Abdullah said:

We locally paint the oxidizable metals with this paint as it prevents the oxidation.
The english name is “Primer based on alkyd resin and iron oxide”. If i paint the iron vessels and fittings with this it will prevent the oxidation but should i do it?
Is it safe?

I have purred some of this Shampoo on a metal which was painted by this and haven’t seen any reaction. 

No, you really should have fit for purpose equipment. Trying to find a temporary fix which may or may not be sufficient is not a suitable substitute for correct equipment.

Thanks 
Buying a stainless steel tank is not an option at least for now because of high price and not being available in our country because no one uses it. 
And our Shampoo is cold process About 35°. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Whatever it is, you need to scrap it.  It is clearly adulterated.  And that is a pretty lame presrvative system.

You mean scrap only that red part or the whole batch? 

Spectrastat G2 from Inolex has 
%0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid
%0.75 glyceryl caprylate
%0.15 glycerin 
And they say it is broad spectrum preservative.
So at pH 5, with a chelating agent isn’t that enough for Shampoo? 

[Abdullah]

We locally paint the oxidizable metals with this paint as it prevents the oxidation.
The english name is “Primer based on alkyd resin and iron oxide”. If i paint the iron vessels and fittings with this it will prevent the oxidation but should i do it?
Is it safe?

I have purred some of this Shampoo on a metal which was painted by this and haven’t seen any reaction. 

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks

These are the preservative parts
caprylhydroxamic acid %0.1
Glyceryl Caprylate %0.9 
Sodium phytate %0.05 
pH is around 5

I have reduced the amount of sodium phytate from %0.1 to %0.05 in order to reduce the cost as it is expensive but i think it was not a good idea. I will add %0.1 edta to this batch. is that enough or should I add more?

I will search for plastic vessels and fittings. 

[Abdullah]

@Benz3ne thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@Benz3ne thanks 
We don’t have access to such laboratory that can determine it here. 

Stainless steel tank is not available here as much as I have searched. I would have to purchase one and import from another country which with shipping and other costs it would become very expensive. 

I would try to find a way to remove that iron part in the future. 

Is iron oxide harmful in Shampoo? 

[Abdullah]

[Abdullah]

@Bill_Toge the emulsion has %30 Amodimethicone and %2 Cetrimonium Chloride. 
I wat to add it at %1 which becomes %0.3 Amodimethicone and %0.02 Cetrimonium Chloride. 

[Abdullah]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” i want it to stay in hair

[Abdullah]

@ngarayeva001 they have both pure Amodimethicone and emulsions but want to purchase the emulsion for my Shampoo. I currently use pq10.
They have viscosities from 1000 up to 100000 cst. Unlike dimethicone the price increases when viscosity increases. 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
I have purchased a few kgs of 5 cst dimethicone to reduce tackiness of this o/w lotion. I want to add it in %1 or 2. Here are the ingredients 

Olive oil    %6 
Petrolatum   %4 

Emulsifiers 
Polyglyceryl 4 Laurate
Glyceryl Caprylate
Glyceryl oleate

Water and glycerin and xanthan gum and caprylhydroxamic acid 

The required HLB for olive oil and petrolatum is 7. If i add dimethicone 5cst %2, should I acount it as 5 or 9 for better stability? 

[Abdullah]

Try %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid. It cover fungi and boosts phenoxyethanol by working as chelating agent

[Abdullah]

@chemistry8303 
Which viscosity Amodimethicone do you have? 
Interestingly in dimethicone the lower the viscosity the higher the price but in Amodimethicone the higher the viscosity the higher the price. 

Viscosities 1500, 2000, 3000, 10000, 30000 and 100000cps is available to choose from. I don’t know which one has better conditioning. 

[Abdullah]

Use lauryl Glucoside instead of coco Glucoside and viscosity would be more than double with half the added salt

[Abdullah]

%3 Cetearyl Alcohol
Remove shea butter 

You are applying it to hair not scalp and then it is rinsed. So don’t wory about irritation.

[Abdullah]

I used to use benzoyl alcohol and DHA at %1 with %0.1 edta and it was enough for a few months preservation

[Abdullah]

My be it is because of your preservative system. 
This preservative doesn’t look enough for me