Sodium salicylate for yeast and mold

Tagged: mold, preservative, sodium-salicylate, yeast

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Sodium salicylate for yeast and mold

Posted by Abdullah on March 29, 2021 at 12:51 pm

Can sodium salicylate at pH 5 cover yeast and mold in emulsion and shampoo?
If yes, at what percentage

Abdullah replied 3 years ago 3 Members · 16 Replies
16 Replies

Pharma

Member
March 29, 2021 at 4:29 pm

pH 5 is limit and you’d need quite a bit. Salicylic acid works best below pH ~4. You might get away with it in blends. However, I lack any experience/knowledge in that regard.
PhilGeis

Member
March 29, 2021 at 5:37 pm

No - it can not.
PhilGeis

Member
March 31, 2021 at 12:56 pm

btw - mold contamination oif shampoo is a very, very rare observatiuon.
Abdullah

Member
April 1, 2021 at 1:03 am

@Pharma thanks
@PhilGeis which microbes grow in Shampoo most?

The ingredients are surfactants, polyquaternium 10, essential oil, NACL, and Amodimethicone in near future.
PhilGeis

Member
April 1, 2021 at 9:23 am

Abdullah said:

@Pharma thanks
@PhilGeis which microbes grow in Shampoo most?

The ingredients are surfactants, polyquaternium 10, essential oil, NACL, and Amodimethicone in near future.

Pseudomonads (esp. Burkholderia cepacia and P. aeruginosa), less so enterics. Fungi esp. mycelial fungi should not be expected.
Pharma

Member
April 1, 2021 at 6:40 pm

@PhilGeis Good to know! P. aeruginosa is a really nasty bug especially in the shower with all the aerosol and the main reason why many eye drops have to be used within 1 month after opening! Although ‘only’ an opportunistic human pathogen, for those who do get an infection… Ouch!
Abdullah

Member
April 2, 2021 at 2:55 am

@PhilGeis that is good information to know. I will increase the amount of EDTA from %0.1 to %0.2 then. My preservatives are %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid and %1 Glyceryl Caprylate in Shampoo.

Can you give some information on which one of these pathogens grow more in which type of products or environments?

- Staphylococcus aureus

- e coli
- Candida albicans
- Aspergillus niger
PhilGeis

Member
April 2, 2021 at 1:45 pm

Not wild about your system. The hydroxamic acid is largely going to impact fungi, that and the glyc cap are pretty weak sisters vs the bad guys mentioned below. Do you have a “policy” that controls what you can use (e.g. no formaldehye releasers)?

Only Staph aureus and Candida albicans are pathogens, and none grows very well in cosmetics products. They’re just in the classic preservative test test.

As pharma said, you need to watch out for Pseudomonas aeruginosa as well as Burkholderia cepacia and other Gram negatives.
PhilGeis

Member
April 3, 2021 at 12:16 am

I’ll tell you why I think it’s weak
Capryl hydroxamate is an iron chelator - (like ZPT - another hydroxamate)- competes with hydroxamic acid siderophores such as those fungi use to solubilize/transport iron. You already have EDTA as chelator and Pseudomonas aeruginosa et al. are not bothered by such compounds.
Glyceryl caprylate is really a crap preservative. It’s an ester that Pseudomonad esterases eat for lunch.
Abdullah

Member
April 3, 2021 at 1:18 am

@PhilGeis interesting
this is a patented preservative blend by Inolex. Spectrastat™ G2 Natural MB
Caprylhydroxamic acid %0.1
Glyceryl Caprylate %0.75
Glycerin %0.15

Why would they spend time and money patenting what is not effective enough?

I also use Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in with glyceryl caprylate in some lotions. What is your opinion about that?

What preservative blend do you suggest? (no formaldehye releasers, parabens and mi/cmi)
Pharma

Member
April 3, 2021 at 4:42 am

PhilGeis said:

…
Capryl hydroxamate is an iron chelator - (like ZPT - another hydroxamate)- competes with hydroxamic acid siderophores such as those fungi use to solubilize/transport iron…

Not just that, it also complexes zinc and copper very well. The trick isn’t just about making micronutrients unavailable for microbes but complexing these metals within enzymes to render the whole machinery useless. At least, that’s the hypothesis. It’s also a medium chain fatty acid derivative and many of these have a certain inherent antimicrobial potential. However, having worked with hydroxamic acid derivatives, I’m highly sceptical and fairly concerned about their safety.
PhilGeis

Member
April 3, 2021 at 8:03 am

Abdullah said:

@PhilGeis interesting
this is a patented preservative blend by Inolex. Spectrastat™ G2 Natural MB
Caprylhydroxamic acid %0.1
Glyceryl Caprylate %0.75
Glycerin %0.15

Why would they spend time and money patenting what is not effective enough?

I also use Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in with glyceryl caprylate in some lotions. What is your opinion about that?

What preservative blend do you suggest? (no formaldehye releasers, parabens and mi/cmi)

Why? To exploit the alternative/”natural” preservative market. Prob about as useful as most of the systems marketed in that category.

I’ve not used Ethyl lauroyl arginate - maybe pharma has some relevant experience. It’s a food preservative - seen some caution that it’s more active in vitro than in use - and used in some mouthwash products for plaque and for “antimicrobial” packaging” so prob substantive. Read functionally, it’s a cationic surfactant - maybe not so great with anionics in shampoos.

For shampoos and with your policy constraints - will you use benzyl alcohol or phenoxyethanol? Perhaps with benzoate and EDTA.
Abdullah

Member
April 4, 2021 at 1:58 am

@PhilGeis thanks. I have used in the past these blends. Benzyl alcohol and DHA @%1.1, sb and ps @%1.6.
In blind test i can say almost every time which one has one of these two preservatives and which one has Glyceryl Caprylate and CHA. The last one feels better.
benzyl alcohol and phenoxyethanol are acceptable if there is no milder alternative in reasonable price range and in amounts no more than %0.5. the rest should be milder preservatives.

I have used Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in Shampoo. It had the best feeling. Maybe because of its conditioning effect. But it is not compatible with chelating agents EDTA and sodium phytate and it is expensive too. so i am not using it in Shampoo anymore.

There is a blend called SymOcide PH which is claimed to be broad spectrum.
Phenoxyethanol %0.6
Hydroxyacetophenone %0.25
Caprylyl Glycol %0.1
Water %0.05

So would adding %0.2 or %0.3 hydroxyacetophenone make this blend strong enough?

Glyceryl Caprylate %1
Hydroxyacetophenone %0.2 or 0.3
CHA %0.1
EDTA or sodium phytate %0.1
Abdullah

Member
April 4, 2021 at 2:07 am

Pharma said:

PhilGeis said:

…
Capryl hydroxamate is an iron chelator - (like ZPT - another hydroxamate)- competes with hydroxamic acid siderophores such as those fungi use to solubilize/transport iron…

Not just that, it also complexes zinc and copper very well. The trick isn’t just about making micronutrients unavailable for microbes but complexing these metals within enzymes to render the whole machinery useless. At least, that’s the hypothesis. It’s also a medium chain fatty acid derivative and many of these have a certain inherent antimicrobial potential. However, having worked with hydroxamic acid derivatives, I’m highly sceptical and fairly concerned about their safety.

Thanks.
So you mean CHA is a strong preservative when used in blends?
Pharma

Member
April 4, 2021 at 3:20 pm

As said, I’m highly sceptical and fairly concerned .

I couldn’t find any scientific data regarding its antimicrobial potential. There seems to be virtually no publicly available data regarding its preservative action.

Overall, there is very little literature regarding CHA… However, it does seem to penetrate skin. For me, reasons enough not to use it (besides the fact that hydroxamates have, for a long time, been considered ‘don’t touch, don’t even think about it’ by pharma companies). Only recently, SAHA and the like became popular but they affect, simply explained, how genes are read. Doesn’t seem very healthy if you’re not fighting a disease with it.
Abdullah

Member
April 6, 2021 at 12:03 pm

@Pharma thanks