[Abdullah]

@abierose @Perry thanks

[Abdullah]

@Perry @Graillotion you are right but i wanted to know this specific answer.

I thought stearyl and cetearyl increase the viscosity more than Cetyl Alcohol because they have higher melting point but yesterday i saw this post on makingskincare.com website.

Stearyl alcohol produces a whiter and more opaque product due to it’s longer carbon chain length. Cetyl alcohol breaks more easily when applied so gives a quicker spread and can hold onto more water than stearyl alcohol as it is more hydrophilic. This results in a higher gel phase which means a higher viscosity. However stearyl alcohol has a different crystalline structure and is less polar resulting in a a more stable viscosity, unlike cetyl alcohol whose viscosity can increase over time.

I currently use cetearyl alcohol 30/70.

This formula
Petrolatum %5
Coconut oil %2
Dimethicone %1
Polyglyceryl 6 distearate %1
Glyceryl stearate %1
Cetearyl alcohol %3
Glycerin %20
Preservative, essential oil and water. 
pH 5 

Would the viscosity increase or decrease if i use Cetyl Alcohol instead of cetearyl alcohol? 

[Abdullah]

At what percentage have you used geogard ECT and how old is your son? 

I also don’t like benzyl alcohol on my skin. 

You can use a blend of phenoxyethanol with other preservatives.

[Abdullah]

They reduce the viscosity. 
I wouldn’t use cmea more than %1or 2.

[Abdullah]

That is not homogenizer. The least expensive lab homogenizer is around $500.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks 
It is

 %5 CAPB= %1.5 active surfactant
%3 lauryl Glucoside= %1.5 active surfactant
%10 AOS= %9 active surfactant.
Eo= essential oil lavender. 

Should I increase the amount of surfactants? It would become %18 active surfactant.

Guar gum was in this formula with SLES to stabilize EGDS. As this one was opaque it self i didn’t use EGDS in it. I made sample without guar gum too. Same problem. 

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks. I wanted to add surfactants first and then guar gum and cationic guar gum. It was more convenient this way. So now i should add ALS after adding guar gums and adjusting there pH. 

[Abdullah]

@jemolian thanks

[Abdullah]

Is it %15.5 powder AOS or liquid? 
How is the foam of it?
Does it make clear Shampoo or opaque?

I am recently working on it and salt decreases the viscosity. 

[Abdullah]

Argan oil doesn’t have anything special to justify the high price. 
Hemp seed oil doesn’t feel oily no matter how much of it you put to skin but it doesn’t regulate the sebum. If you have oily skin you have oily skin. 
Jojoba oil reduces the sebum production. I mean noticable reduction. If you have oily face and use it for a few weeks and then stop using it your face will be dry if you don’t put some oil or lotion on it. 

I had severe ance and very oily face and it’s scares are on my face. But Now I don’t get acne. I think acne is age related. I am 27 now.

[Abdullah]

Remove glycerin and decyl Glucoside.
Increase glutamate to %20 or more

[Abdullah]

@jemolian can we purchase this book alone or we should purchase their whole program to get the book? 

[Abdullah]

@abierose my mistake. I mean marketing. 

[Abdullah]

5cs and above that is not volatile. Below 5 is volatile. 

By the way, which book is this?

[Abdullah]

@abierose wow 
Today i learned a lot about importance of marking from your comment.
Appreciated

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 
What is the purpose of using petrolatum in hair products? 

Is it used in hair or scalp? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry how about petrolatum for hair? 

[Abdullah]

@Bill_Toge thanks 

Are all pure essential oils clear or some of them like lavender? 
I did purchase some vetiver EO and it is also like oil and not clear.

Is there any way to check to make sure if it is emulsion or pure eo?

[Abdullah]

It is %30 Glucoside and %70 alcohols

[Abdullah]

@ngarayeva001 they convert salicylic acid to sodium salicylate

[Abdullah]

Yes these are strong preservatives. At that time i was using geogard 221 which is not very strong as these two and not very water soluble. 

Wish you success. 

[Abdullah]

@Paprik yes

[Abdullah]

Some times we do something because we like it or because we can’t do otherwise. I did the same. I liked Glyceryl Caprylate as preservative because it had natural name, was mild and inexpensive. Although I knew it is not very effective Preservative, i was hopping that someone tell me it is a robust Preservative. Change is the best thing we can do. 

I bet if you make the Product one phase, it would be more effective with less cost and you would like it. 

[Abdullah]

emma1985 said:

I’m not sure what you mean by in expense of quality. This product is an intentionally bi-phase product using high quality ingredients. It’s not a failed emulsion. There is no emulsifier.

I mean you add each ingredient at certain percentage to work best. If the percentage changes during use they will not have that effect any more. For example if you use %4 Glycerin and that work best, if that change to %2 or %8 that will not be the same as %4 in effectiveness of feeling. 

If the consumer can use the Product without any effort, need to shake several times in each application is a minus point. 

No emulsifier mean your product will be water thin and runny. Who prefer a runny Product over some viscosity?

You will not be able to use a lot of good ingredient like butters, waxes, allantoin, petrolatum, etc.

You use %50 oil phase because you know the bad thing is going to happen. That also increase your cost. I use %10 oil phase, it works well and no worries.

You use %50 oil, that would not make a noticable difference if it change to %90 or %10. what about ingredients that are used at small amounts and make a difference? They will have negative effects like less efficacy or irritation if percentage increased or decreased. Ingredients like preservatives, AHA/BHA, retinol, perfume, etc.

For how much time have you used such Products and how many bottles that you are saying the ratio changes from 50/50 to 40/60? I have used my such (failed) Products for years and i know if you don’t use emulsifier the oil and water separate in seconds not even minutes and at the ends of 100g bottle there always is only water phase left. 

For your preservatives, can you tell how much do you use. I need to see how it will work. When i recalled my bi phase Products the preservation system didn’t work for more than a month or two no matter what and for stable versions i have samples from 2 years ago that are fine. Same formula and same amount of same preservative. 

Separated phase is better that than no emulsifier. At least they will remain mixed a few minutes after shaking.

Droppers will be worse because the amount inside the dropper will not mix with rest of it when you shake the bottle.

[Abdullah]

@EVchem thanks for sharing your experience. 
If i mix surfactants first and then add it to thickened water phase with gum the final viscosity is higher than if add surfactants one by one to gum thickened water phase.

I don’t notice any difference in performance