Abdullah
Forum Replies Created
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Add a UV absorber.
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Pharma said:Abdullah said:@Pharma no problem. What should i search for in Google to get results about these?
Why don’t you want to search in PubMed or ScienceDirect? Anyway, maybe try THIS.
I will but i don’t know what should i search for. What should i write in search box?
When i searched anionic cationic i only got the result of SLS, SLES+ some amphoteric surfactants for cleansing product.
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@ketchito I can’t open or download the file in Link. Can you resend it.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/11qb1KU47IkdATt4TN5PNfhBSgGlTuAOJ/view?usp=drivesdk
This has some charts -
@Pharma At the right one, the ‘incompatibility’ can actually increase stability…
Can you explain this interaction a bit more or where can i study about interactions like this.This is interesting for me because i have seen some Serave products and phique conditioner that uses anionic & cationic surfactant. I knew they are doing something good but don’t know what are they doing and why are they doing so.
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Newtoformulating said:@Abdullah my daughter had a patch test done on her skin to figure out the trigger for her severe eczema and that’s 1 of 2 things she reacted to.
What was the other thing?
Was patch test done with only IPBC in a solvent or a product that had IPBC?
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ketchito said:Annyeap said:ketchito said:@saeedulfat Usually CAPB and NaCl are added as the last ingredients, to reach the final viscosity (unless you have a cationic polymer, in which case, you could use some CAPB before your cationic polymer, to avoid direct interaction with your anionic surfactant). Also, why do you wait 24 hours to add CAPB?
@ketchito, can I just check with you, in a 16% SLES (70%)/5% CAPB (35%)/3.6% Lauryl Glucoside formulation which I then thicken with 3% salt, is it possible to increase the CAPB % to increase its viscosity? Would it accept the stability? I add the CAPB at the beginning, is it better to add CAPB at the end?
You really need to test it, since every system is different. If you are going to modify the level of CAPB, add it almost at the end, before NaCl.
Yes you can only know when you test it but if my memory work enough, you will need less than 3% NACL for this formula.
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How do you know you are allergic to IPBC?
It is one of the safest preservatives in terms of allergy & irritation.chlorphenesin work well too.
@PhilGeis his pH is 6.7. will sodium benzoate do anything at that pH?
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Start from some xanthan gum.
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@Perry i agree. We have to test to know which conditioner provides more conditioning.
But to check from which conditioner more cationic surfactant will deposit, i don’t have equipments to analyze the hair and surfactant deposition. So If any study has been done on this, that would help a lot.My particular question is: two conditioners with 1% BTAC+2% fatty alcohol, at pH 4.5 & 6.9, in theory from which one will more cationic surfactant deposit in hair?
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PhilGeis said:I’ve seen conditioners from major cosmetic companies with pH 3-4.
Did those conditioners have SPDMA and BAPDMA that need low pH to have positive charge or they had BTAC ot other surfactants that don’t need low pH?
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You have too much xanthan gum. Usually it is used 0.2%.
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BTMS is cationic & SSL is anionic. Not compatible.
Remove SSL & increase BTMS or remove BTMS, increase preservative blend and add a polymer for stability.
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MarkBroussard said:@esthetician922
You can’t … you must disclose every single ingredient in the product regardless of how little you use. The only work-around is if you apply to the FDA for a trade secret, but you must have a valid reason for requesting the trade secret and the chances of you receiving one are very, very slim.
Will you have to show your ingredients to FDA if you want to apply for a trade secret?
Is there any product in market who is legally hiding the ingredients because he has applied for a trade secret?
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@Pharma which pH will cause irritation?
High or low?And what osmolality? I couldn’t get a good idea from Google search.
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Does it have glycolic or lactic acid?
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Ingredients
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Perry said:The more acidic (lower pH) your conditioner, the less adsorption happens due to isoelectric effects. Instead, the hydrophobic effect is more important. As you increase pH, you increase bonding sites on the hair fiber thus increasing the amount of cationic that will stay on the hair.
So, the answer is it depends on what conditioning agents you are using. If you are relying on cationic surfactants, a higher pH is better. If you are using longer chain conditioning agents (say Stearyl vs Cetyl) you’ll get more adsorption as a lower pH.
You can read all about how things stick to hair in this article.
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/ed523436-1531-466d-9153-d2bac9293f9f/e8f6f08010f30e21b56ef091ef4536de @perr@Perry in this study they compared deposition at pH 3.6 vs 6.9. as at pH 3.6 hair has almost no negative charge, the deposition of cationic at pH 6.9 would be higher.
What about pH 4.5 vs 6.9 for a conditioner with 1% BTMC+2% fatty alcohol?
Now hair would have negative charge when applying both of these conditioners. So would BTMC deposit more at pH 6.9 compared to pH 4.5 too?
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Then At pH 6.7 sodium benzoate won’t work.
Use IPBC or parabens.
That pH is also very difficult to preserve.
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That depends on your whole formula, how much anionic & amphoteric surfactants you have.
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What is the preservative in second one and caprylhydroxamic acid percentage in first one?
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What is your final pH?
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zetein said:In soft water AOS produces more foam than SLS. In hard water AOS loses foaming power real quick, but the detergency remains (and is higher than SLS).
That is interesting. I thought water hardness has less impact on AOS than SLS. Tomorrow i will wash my hair with soft water and AOS: CAPB 1:1 shampoo and see how it foams.
In hard water this formula foamed very bad.
Do you have any suggestion for as AOS formula to start from for good foaming?