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Glycol and Chelating Agents
Hello all! I am trying to finalize my formula but I am a little confused by the incorporating of Glycol and chelating agents into my formula. How would I know if either one needs to be added?
Here are the ingredients I will use:
Water
Ceteareth 25
Acudyne 1000
Peg 40 hydrogenated castor oil
Peg 7 Glyceryl Cocoate
Euxyl k940 as a preservative
AMP as a neutralizerEuxyl k940 will be my only preservative so I guess I’m asking does it work well alone or does it need some assistance?
Formulating is still really new to me so at times I don’t understand when other ingredients such as glycols or chelators are needed. Thanks in advance
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38 Replies
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You would be best off to always add glycols and chelating agents to formulas to boost the performance of your preservative. In this particular case I would also add Sodium Benzoate to your concoction to round out your preservation.
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What Mark said+ don’t forget to reduce pH <5.
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@MarkBroussard thanks for responding! What specific chelating agent and Glycol would you recommend if my pH will be between 6-7? Also is sodium benzoate compatible with a 6-7 pH as well? Thanks again!
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Pentylene Glycol + Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate (GLDA). No, sodium benzoate would be not be effective at pH < 6. Perhaps Chlorphenesin instead.
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@MarkBroussard Thank you for your guidance. This is VERY helpful!
@Abdullah Thank you also for responding! With the Acudyne 1000 and AMP that I am using, for clarity the lowest pH without my formula being too cloudy was 6.7
Anything below pH 6.7 once the Acudyne was neutralized was on the verge of my hair gel being white. I wanted my product to be as clear as possible but if I neutralize it to the full % to achieve the clear ringing gel I’m looking for then the pH was way to high (pH between 8-9) Is it possible for me to add citric acid or something else to lower the pH in conjunction with my other ingredients in order to achieve the clear look I’m going for and a much lower pH or would I just have to deal with the pH being on the high side (pH of 6-7) and my gel being slightly cloudy? Thanks again! -
If you reduce the pH you will lose some of the functionality of the acudyne. Why are you adding the PEGs? What do you think they contribute to the formula?
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@evchem2 Thank you for responding. My use of Peg 40 hydrogenated castor oil is to assist in the solubility of the oil and water phases. Peg 7 glyceryl cocoate is used for solubility and moisture. That’s just my use and experience. Not sure if that’s everyone else’s take on PEG ingredients.
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Then At pH 6.7 sodium benzoate won’t work.
Use IPBC or parabens.
That pH is also very difficult to preserve.
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System feels a bit naked. Add a chelator - use EDTA. Unless you make some biodegradable claim, there’s no driver for GLDA. Benzyl isn’t bad vs fungi.
Do some testing.
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@PhilGeis Is there an issue using synthetic raw materials with biodegradable raw materials? I would use GLDA because it doesn’t originate from formaldehyde and formaldehyde may pose an issue for my customers if I use EDTA. Am I correct in my thinking that EDTA originates from formaldehyde?
@Abdullah I have a family history of IPBC allergy so that wouldn’t work and although I know that Parabens are the most effective preservatives it wouldn’t go well with my customers. So using Euxyl k940, chlorphenesin, Pentylene Glycol, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate (GLDA) to preserve my formula won’t work? I appreciate all of you all feedback it has been very helpful!
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@Newtoformulating
Sure - formaldehyde is a reactant and cyanide too (gasp). Both “natural” materials and orders of magnitude of both in our bodies than from EDTA in a product. Why is this a problem? Can’t imagine many of sufficient education to understand EDTA synthesis wouldn’t understand that neither would be in the commercial product or pose a risk.You can preserve with those and suggest you add Na benzoate, It’ll be more labor intensive and you’ll need to qualify each application as no combination will carry over well from product to product.
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How do you know you are allergic to IPBC?
It is one of the safest preservatives in terms of allergy & irritation.chlorphenesin work well too.
@PhilGeis his pH is 6.7. will sodium benzoate do anything at that pH?
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IPBC biggest (questionable) theoretical concern was Iodine impact on thyroid function but it is in derm test patch kits - https://www.dermatologyadvisor.com/home/decision-support-in-medicine/dermatology/allergic-contact-dermatitis-preservatives/
Right.
Na benzoate might if in surfactant context for Newtoform’s other products -
@Abdullah my daughter had a patch test done on her skin to figure out the trigger for her severe eczema and that’s 1 of 2 things she reacted to.
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Newtoformulating said:@Abdullah my daughter had a patch test done on her skin to figure out the trigger for her severe eczema and that’s 1 of 2 things she reacted to.
What was the other thing?
Was patch test done with only IPBC in a solvent or a product that had IPBC?
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Newtoformulating said:So using Euxyl k940, chlorphenesin, Pentylene Glycol, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate (GLDA) to preserve my formula won’t work?
The simple answer to your question is: Yes, this should work
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@Abdullah IPBC in a solvent. The other allergens she reacted to was Methylisothiazolinone (MIT) and Methylchloroisothiazolinone (CMIT
@PhilGeis
@MarkBroussard
Thanks for responding! This information is definitely helpful -
MIT/CMIT are certainly of greater sensitization potential than IPBCl.
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@Newtoformulating okay maybe I missed it but you don’t have an oil phase? You have multiple emulsifiers/solubilizers but I don’t see anything they are needed for.
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@evchem2 I really don’t understand what you mean. Actually my current formula is a ringing gel that I am very pleased with. My ONLY issue is (what I came here for) was to get ideas on how to solidify my preservation system. My formula is a pretty simple, standard formula so I am truly lost at what you are implying. I’ve never had anyone on this forum to ask questions like this about my formula and it has been posted multiple times. I have a water phase and an oil phase. I’m really trying not to get confused as I already stated I am new to formulating but I am getting REALLY confused by your comments.
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@Newtoformulating, sorry my aim isn’t to confuse you.
You don’t have a traditional oil phase. I’m not well versed in haircare so maybe my understanding is wrong but ceteareth-25, PEG-40 HCO, and PEG-7 are all emulsifiers/surfactants. The ceteareth is necessary for creating the gel, the accudyne is your fixative, so I was wondering why you include the PEGs when you don’t have anything that won’t go into the water phase (unless there’s fragrance?). If you are happy with your product performance then there’s no reason to change, I was just asking to learn
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hello, I am using Phenoxyethanol 1% for a aqua pomade with 25-30% ceteareth-25 and challenge test and 18 months microbiological analysis responds well.
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However, I have stability problems as I noticed a pH drop especially in 1 month accelerated conditions. (from 5.9 to 5).
My ingredients are
aqua, ceteareth-25, propylene glycol, peg 7 glyceryl cocoate, peg 40 hydrogenated castor oil, polysorbate 20, parfum, phenoxyethanol and glyceryl laurate.Does anyone has any suggestions what could be causing the ph drop? I rule out microorganism growth,as this is checked.
Could it be an issue with ceteareth-25 degradation to acids?
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@Newtoformulating actually I see that you are using carefully your ingredients sush AMP as neutralizer and Acudyne 1000 as styling agent wich gave me a sensation that you are professional formulator 😉.
About the preservative Euxyl k940 it seems fine may just you should work for the needed level of it.
I feel curious about the texture of your product is it wax, gel or gel wax ? Then how the hair will be by using it , crunchy as the gel or smooth as oil based pomade?
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