[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

The CIR Expert Panel concluded that formaldehyde and
methylene glycol are safe for use in cosmetics when formulated
to ensure use at the minimal effective concentration, but in no
case should the formalin (note 1) concentration exceed 0.2%
(w/w), which would be 0.074% (w/w) calculated as formaldehyde or 0.118% (w/w) calculated as methylene glycol.
https://online.personalcarecouncil.org/ctfa-static/online/lists/cir-pdfs/PRNS547.pdf

Thanks 
That is a good news that 0.1% formalin is safe for babies. 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

How are you measuring conditioning?

I don’t have equipments to measure it. My measurement is by asking people how their hair feel when it is dry and how much easy it is to comb when wet and dry. 

That is why a lot of time i am asking here how the conditioning effects are in theory. Because most of the consumers can’t feel the difference properly. 

[Abdullah]

@ketchito in the ulprospector Link, what is your opinion about these two

Other factors that effect deposition

1. Coacervate rheology
is it the actual product viscosity or product viscosity during shampooing when coacervate is formed? 

2. Electrolytes reduce the amount of coacervate.
doesnt it mean reduced deposition? 

[Abdullah]

What are you using glucosides for and at what percentage of your total surfactant?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah You can actually start with this book: Principles of Polymer Science and Technology in Cosmetics and Personal Care.

ULprospector also has an article about it (although only related to coacervates): https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/638/pcc-understanding-deposition-rinse-products/

Now, here are some interestin papers (the first ons is my favorite on the topic):

1) http://www.scientificspectator.com/documents/surfactant%20spectator/surfactant%20interaction/2006%20Coacervate.pdf
2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9292326/
3) https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jos/68/6/68_ess19081/_pdf
 

Thanks a lot 

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

Nope! That’s only one-half the USP monograph NClO activity for a wound care wash. It may dry your skin a lot, but at least it’ll be sterilized.

Thanks 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

It does both. Mostly it removes the conditioning ingredients. But some of it combines with the cationic & forms an insoluble salt that stays behind on hair.

I have made some insoluble salts by mixing 0.2% cationic and 2% anionic surfactants. They made insoluble salt. Then when i mixed this salt with phenoxyethanol or glycerin it turned into a very sticky substance that was extremely difficult to remove from mixing equipment or from skin. I didn’t use them on hair ????.

Question: this insoluble salt if anionic surfactant is SLES, cationic surfactant is BTAC, cationic polymer is cationic guar, will it be more conditioning than BTAC or cationic guar in their cationic form or less? 

If less then how can we say we get additional conditioning? 

[Abdullah]

@ketchito this patent page is in English but when i download it, the language changes to Chinese. Is there any way to download it in English? 

[Abdullah]

@Microformulation thanks 
@Perry “You put it on before shampooing, then the anionic in the shampoo would  react with some of the cationic that was on the hair and you’d get additional conditioning.” 

Does anionic surfactant in shampoo remove cationic surfactant and polymer from hair which reduces their conditioning effects or it reacts with them and provides additional conditioning? 

[Abdullah]

I would say make only one product with 5% petrolatum+ 20% glycerin+ pH 4-4.5+ if you want 0.5% salicylic acid for anti inflammation

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I recommendo you to search and download papers on the matter. There are plenty, from the Journal of Cosmetic Science, Langmuir, el Journal of detergents and surfactants, Polymers, etc. Try searching through Google Scholar.

I did a lot of research but couldn’t find any. 

[Abdullah]

@ketchito “pseudomonad siderophores have a greater affinity for Fe, Mg than hydoxamates - cap, ZPT, NaPT.” 
Does this sentence mean pseudomonad can consume Fe & Mg even after they are chelated by caprylhydroxamic acid or it means something else? 

[Abdullah]

You need to use less FO to get the same scent intensity. 

[Abdullah]

@ketchito can you tell me where can i learn more about interactions of NACL vs polymers? 

[Abdullah]

grapefruit22 said:

Companies usually have a division into conditioners and masks. They have similar ingredients, the masks have a thicker and richer texture and probably a greater amount of conditioning ingredients. Below is a photo of a conditioner and mask from the same company, maybe it will be helpful in some way.
Usually they recommend keeping the conditioner shorter - 1-2 minutes, and the mask 5-7 minutes.
Pre-wash treatment is a rare product, usually it is an oil or a mask with a heavy consistency.

Thanks a lot 

[Abdullah]

Increase the pH to 10 and it will hydrate in 2 minutes. 

[Abdullah]

You can make good shampoo with Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate + CAPB+ EDTA. 
You don’t need anything else. 

[Abdullah]

SLES is ok in hard and soft water. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If PQ-10 have deposited as a coacervate, NaCl would help remove it in the next wash, although not as much as if PQ-10 had deposited alone. 

By desorption, yes…I meant from hair, once the polymer had already deposited.

Thanks ????

[Abdullah]

I don’t know how much correct it is but someone told me that i should have at least 0.1%, ideally 0.15% organic acid in it’s acid form + a preservative like phenoxyethanol for bacteria + EDTA.

That would be at least 0.7% sodium benzoate at pH 5 to get 0.1% in acid form. 
At pH 4.7, 0.5% which is upper limit for leave on product would give you 0.1% in acid form. 

This is not for cleansing products. 

I am looking to hear from experts here about this. 

[Abdullah]

For skin products i like anionic surfactant alone or small amount of amphoteric maybe for viscosity.

For hair it is different. 

[Abdullah]

A lot of types. 

They have different functions so depending to your need one may be better than another. 
All are friendly for skin except Amodimethicone.

For skin product start with dimethicone. 

[Abdullah]

Reducing the pH to 4.7 helps a lot if you are not using good preservatives. 

[Abdullah]

How much preservative are you using? 

Is your protein liquid or powder form? 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

No, not due to preservative breaking down anyway

Got it 
Thanks a lot.