[Abdullah]

@Paprik 
You mean at pH 5 or 6 it needs preservative and at pH 11 or 12 it doesn’t?

As this product will not be in contact with human skin i want it to be as inexpensive as possible. 

[Abdullah]

@EngineerAMANAUEL 
It may be contaminated with microbes. Is your preservative strong enough?
What was in the unwashed tank? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry 

Hello

I can’t open the links from google search after this update to site. Please check that. 

[Abdullah]

No it doesn’t apply to cationic guar

[Abdullah]

@Pharma 
How to add glyceryl caprylate to function as preservative in cold process emulsion? 
Temperature less than or around 40°c

[Abdullah]

@Pharma 
That is cool

[Abdullah]

. Increase the phenoxyethanol to %1
. Reduce the sodium benzoate to <0.5

For viscosity 
Remove glycerin
Reduce the fragrance 
Increase the betaine

And as belassi said, increase the total amount of active surfactant to around %10

[Abdullah]

EVchem said:

Something specifically on silicones would be nice, or other “problematic” ingredients like sulfates, parabens. Have people argue for the benefits vs consequences of using them.

I agree.
Something specifically on silicones would be nice.

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
This information was very helpful 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma so what is the best way to add it to function completely as preservative? 
As it is not water soluble to be added to water phase before emulsion is made.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt 
As you suggested i tried HEC, HPMC and guar gum. At different quantities from %0.1 up to %0.5, alone and blended with each other but they were not stable. Creaming happens after some days. 

Any other suggestions

Here is the formula 

Olive oil %6
Petrolatum %4
Glycerin %3
Essential oil %0.4
Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl %0.2
Glyceryl Caprylate %1
Polyglyceryl 4 Laurate %1-3
Glyceryl oleate %1-3
Required HLB 7.26

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
If i use glyceryl caprylate as co-emulsifier with Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate, would that decrease its effectiveness as preservative or not? 

[Abdullah]

What is the percentage of each ingredient

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” 
I have separated some of this batch and it doesn’t produce any color and any change. The rest of the batch in this tank also doesn’t produce any color change. The only part that produces red color is these two fittings which are made of iron as shown in picture and i know these parts produce iron oxide very fast. 
My concern isn’t about color, whatever color it is, it is fine for me. My concern is about contamination or being harmful to consumers.

I have used sweet orange essential oil %0.25

[Abdullah]

thank you both @PhilGeis @”Dr Catherine Pratt”
If i transfer this batch to another plastic tank and it didn’t produce any more red color, can i be sure that it is not a preservative issue and that color was just iron oxide being produced from that iron part of tank that i have circled? I wknow that parts produce iron oxide easily in a few hours.

Of course i will change that part soon.

[Abdullah]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” it already has 
%0.9 glyceryl caprylate

%0.12 caprylhydroxamic acid
%0.05 sodium phytate
%0.1 tetrasodium EDTA
%0.4 citric acid 

I don’t have Euxyl 9010 available but i have Geogard 221. By the way, wouldn’t it become too much preservative and cause irritation? 

pH is 5. What do you suggest the pH to be? 

I don’t know about bergaptenes. We use it at %0.25 and it gives a good smell. That is enough for us.

[Abdullah]

I haven’t tried Dimethicone, Titanium dioxide and Propylene glycol but the rest i have tried and it is not drying at these ratios for me. 

[Abdullah]

What is the percentage?

My HEC is completely clear at %0.5

[Abdullah]

When i was using cationic guar in Shampoo at more than %0.3, the feeling was not good. 

[Abdullah]

For large batches you should print the formula, write the amount of each ingredient, weight and prepare each ingredient separately, recheck, better by another person and then start the production without further thinking or weighting. This way you will be %100 sure you make what you want to make. 

If you prepare one ingredient and add it and then prepare another ingredient, there is a chance you make a mistake. And in lage batches mistakes couse a lot of pain. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks a lot.
We filter the water and when enough filtered water is not available we purchase and use mineral drinking water which are being sold in Bottles.
In this batch 50kg was mineral water.

These two parts produce red color in a few hours when in contact with Shampoo, we have seen that when cleaning the materials. And i am sure some of the color is from this. Just want to know is there any bacteria, yeast or mold that produce red color when contaminated with?

If not safe as Shampoo, can we use it for other things Like floor cleaning, surface cleaning, car wash, dishwashing, clothes washing or anything else?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Yes - the whole batch. “Broad spectrum” is the marketing hype offered for every preservative and that is very weak system - esp. for a shampoo.

I did add %0.1 tetrasodium EDTA and % 0.03 citric acid as @chemic@chemicalmatt said and mixed the whole batch. pH is 5. It hasn’t produced this red color again since two days. 6 people including me have used the shampoo after that and it has no irritation or smell or any negative effect.

What if we sell this batch in discount directly to consumer? We can sell all directly to consumer to be used faster and not be stored in shops. We can sell all in one or two months. 

Scraping 500kg Shampoo would be painful ???? for a startup company.

[Abdullah]

@ozgirl yeah
there is a mild orange color produced in each batch but i thought it may be from orange essential oil.
Does this interaction reduce the effectiveness of preservative? 

[Abdullah]

Benz3ne said:

Abdullah said:

We locally paint the oxidizable metals with this paint as it prevents the oxidation.
The english name is “Primer based on alkyd resin and iron oxide”. If i paint the iron vessels and fittings with this it will prevent the oxidation but should i do it?
Is it safe?

I have purred some of this Shampoo on a metal which was painted by this and haven’t seen any reaction. 

No, you really should have fit for purpose equipment. Trying to find a temporary fix which may or may not be sufficient is not a suitable substitute for correct equipment.

Thanks 
Buying a stainless steel tank is not an option at least for now because of high price and not being available in our country because no one uses it. 
And our Shampoo is cold process About 35°.