Stability and thickening of shampoo

Formulating

Stability and thickening of shampoo

Posted by Rencelj on January 28, 2015 at 10:00 pm

Hello,

recently i was trying to make shampoo but still no luck. I was using Perry’s natural formula (from curse) but as soon as i add essential oil, it gets cloudy. I gave up.

So i decide to try and make new formula with those ingredients:

I heat 20g of water to 45c and balance ph with citric acid to 3.5, than i add guar (0.3) and water get thicker (gel). I mixed those surfactants and 20g water

30 % Cocamidopropyl Betaine 30% active

4 % disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate (powder) 30% active

10 % Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate 25% active

after all mixed i combined all. Shampoon is 12.7 active. Problem is cose i dont know how to properly thick it or make it stable. When i mix all this is just like some low viscosity gel made from xantan gum.

I also used sodium chloride 2g. Looks like it thick when ph drops below 5.5 (around 4.9 best).

Is not smooth/clear shampoo. Mayby cose i am using guar ? How could i thick otherwise ? Any suggestions on this formula?

On end i add also

- polyquaternium 7 0.5%

- cyclomethicone 0,5 %

- provitamin b5 0,5%

Option to use those surfactants :

Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate (and) Lauryl Glucoside (Plantapon LGC)

Sodium C14/C16 Olefin Sulphonate

Regards

belassi replied 9 years, 3 months ago 5 Members · 12 Replies
12 Replies

Iaskedbetter

Member
January 28, 2015 at 10:31 pm

If you post your full formula with percentages it would be easier for us to chime in.
Rencelj

Member
January 28, 2015 at 10:44 pm

Thank you for leting me know, Hope this will be better to see.:

50,5% water

30% - Cocamidopropyl Betaine (30% active)

4% - disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate (powder) (30% active)

10% - Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate (25% active)

sodium chloride 2%

phenoxyethanol (and) ethylhexylglycerin 0,7

polyquaternium 7 0.5%

cyclomethicone 0,5 %

provitamin b5 0,5%

guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride 0,3%
belassi

Member
January 29, 2015 at 1:28 am

The formula is not a salt thickening one so you’re wasting time and material adding salt. Besides, the whole idea of sulphate free is not only to eliminate sulphates but also sodium chloride.

I don’t personally like CAPB much as a surfactant. It produces ‘creamy’ foam that becomes like snot at high percentages. 30% is way too much in my view; I wouldn’t use CAPB at any more than 10%. No doubt you like it because it is low cost and the other surfactants are not low cost.

You’ve got 44% of surfactants in there and yet you still haven’t got a usable shampoo. That should tell you something. My own sulphate-free shampoo has 25% surfactants and a very adequate performance.

I suggest:

1. Use the DLS and SCG as the primary surfactants and cut down the CAPB to no more than 10%.

2. Add 2% MEA (you will need to dissolve this in the hot surfactants) as a foam booster and thickener.

3. Eliminate the NaCl

4. Potassium sorbate 0.5% will make a perfectly adequate preservative and will not affect thickening as I suspect your present combination does.

5. Remove the cyclomethicone and increase the polyquat 7 to 1%

The remaining issue is the thickener and there has already been quite a lot of discussion about that in other topics. The MEA will help but you may want to use another thickener besides the guar gum.
Rencelj

Member
January 29, 2015 at 7:18 am

I totally agree with you. At the moment i dont have Cocamide MEA, but i have only DEA and that one is carcinogen. I cant find suppliers to even order it and test it from web page in UK.

Mayby can i replace CAPB with Sodium C14/C16 Olefin Sulphonate ?

I can also use this 2 if need:

coco glucoside glyceryl oleate

Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate (and) Lauryl Glucoside (Plantapon LGC)
Rencelj

Member
January 29, 2015 at 8:09 am

Totally forgot. Mayby you could help me with shampoo reacting with essential oils? From Perry’s natural formula i get from nice texture and nice thicken form in to cloudy shampoo. No perservative yet added or any other feature ingredient. I tried to add EO and asap as i add, it get cloudy. I tried to use polysorbates, peg 40 castor oil and mix with eo and than add, but just wouldnt work.
belassi

Member
January 29, 2015 at 4:18 pm

If the shampoo goes cloudy with essential oil, then the surfactant is not a powerful enough emulsifier. You are mixing the E.O. with the surfactant BEFORE dilution?

I can’t advise regarding Plantapon LGC Sorb because I have never compared it to those others. It’s OK but not that foamy. Do you have access to Kao Chemicals range by any chance? They are excellent.
OldPerry

Member
January 29, 2015 at 4:42 pm

You’ll need to solubilize the essential oils in something like polysorbate or if you want to be more natural, Sorbitan Oleate Decylglucoside Crosspolymer from Colonial Chemical. Oleth-40 can work too.

Incidentally, DEA is not a carcinogen.
Rencelj

Member
January 30, 2015 at 11:21 am

I mix EO after cool down phase, when all surfactants are already mixed.

Now i tried to add 2% polysorbate 80 and 0.5% EO. It got a lot better just a little bit cloudy. Adding any silicone will make it cloudy more right ? Was thinking to add polyquaternium 7 or something to make hair soft and smooth after washing

How do you mean by surfactants are not strong enought?

Sodium Cocoamphoacetate (25%) 32%

Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate & Lauryl Glucoside (25%) 10%

Disodium Cocoyl Glutamate (25%) 6.4%

totall active = 12,1

Cocomide DEA:

” The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) lists coconut oil diethanolamine condensate (cocamide DEA) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen, which identifies this chemical as possibly carcinogenic to humans.^[3]

In June 2012, the California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment added cocamide DEA to the California Proposition 65 (1986) list of chemicals known to cause cancer.^[4]

Cocamide DEA has a high irritation potential.^[5]^{[non-primary source needed] “}
Bobzchemist

Member
January 30, 2015 at 3:20 pm

You are essentially trying to make a microemulsion with your EO. If your shampoo is cloudy, then your oil droplets are too large, giving you a macroemulsion instead. You need more powerful surfatants to do this - the quantity of the weak surfactants that you are using will have no effect on this problem at all.
Rencelj

Member
January 30, 2015 at 3:42 pm

Thank you all for help,

i think my knowledge is to bad for this and best would be to find someone and pay it to make formulation.

Greg
OldPerry

Member
January 30, 2015 at 3:53 pm

Thanks for enlightening me. My information about Cocamide DEA was clearly out of date. Back in 1996 all the major hair care companies removed DEA containing materials from their formulas (it was a big project for the VO5 brand). The reason we did it though was because of residual DEA being shown to be carcinogenic in rats. There wasn’t evidence that the the amid itself was carcinogenic.

While the CIR finds that it is safe when used at levels in cosmetics, it’s probably a good idea for marketing reasons to avoid it.
belassi

Member
January 30, 2015 at 4:49 pm

sodium cocoamphoacetate is a good surfactant and will easily emulsify oils. You are making the mistake of adding the oils too late. They need to be mixed with the surfactant BEFORE dilution.