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shampoo formula, high porosity. any tips?
water 7
Slippery
elm 4Aloe Vera 9
Coco
betaine 17Sodium
Cocoyl Glutamate 17Apple cider
vinegar 5Citric acid
1Shea butter 7
Silk
protein 9Wheat amino
acids 3glycerin 10
Cetyl
alcohol 8any professional sugestions are welcome. personal opinions are not preferred. unless you have a reason to share them
the shampoo is not supposed to be stripping of oils, since afro hair can already be pretty dry. im also trying to coat the hair. this is of coures nto the final formula but a place to work from.
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20 Replies
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Vinegar???
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I don’t even know where to start. It’s not only vinegar. Sorry, but toss that formula out and start again. Sometimes there’s a way to advice to tweak something to make it better but in this case it’s easier just to start again.
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I agree with @ngarayeva001 - this isn’t a suitable formula for a shampoo. You have filled it with ingredients that don’t work in shampoos including…
Cetyl alcohol
Shea butter
GlycerinThen you have ingredients that are just “feature” ingredients (they have almost no functional benefit) that shouldn’t be included in the formula at levels higher than 0.1% including…
Slippery elm
Aloe Vera
Apple cider vinegar
Silk protein
Wheat amino acidsSo the only ingredients worth using and experimenting in trying to develop a formula are…
Water
Coco betaine (secondary detergent)
Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate (detergent)
Citric acid (pH adjuster)But I think you are asking the shampoo to do too much. Shampoos can do 1 thing well, clean hair. (2 in 1 shampoos don’t work as well as a separate shampoo+conditioner) Shampoos are not meant to coat the hair, they are meant to remove things from the hair.
If you want to coat the hair, make a conditioner.
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Perry, please correct me if I’m wrong but I clearly remember reading in some legitimate book (probably it was Harry’s) that although black skin is quite different from caucasian morphologically (more sebaceous glands, different thickness of stratum corneum, some other aspects), black hair are not that different and can be treated just as dry hair. adding all those oils makes no sense. So, polyquats, silicones and a little less of detergent would do the trick.
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Yes, polyquats, silicones, and less detergent would be the approach I would take.
However, I wouldn’t go so far as saying “adding all those oils makes no sense” as this becomes a question of aesthetics & product performance which is a subjective judgement.
As far as ethnic hair differences go, I don’t believe the science is complete enough to definitively say there are or aren’t biological differences in hair protein structure. This study suggests there aren’t many differences but that doesn’t look at the types of treatment people use on their hair. I also don’t necessarily agree with their classifications of caucasian, black and asian. Human populations are more complex than this.
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aight i see hahhaa.
i get it yall not used to this. but i did get all of these ingridients from other popular shampoos tho, (yup even the shea butter and vinegar) and also what i was tryna do with the vinegar is (couse i feel like i gotta explaine that one) to close the cuticle and also it be having some good stuff for the hair, vitamisn and stuff ( i know yall dont like that stuff topical)
tho that was probably in a lot smaller percentage.
and i am not and i repeat not putting siliconesin this shampoo, m mm.
that stuff dont do me right.and also i would recomend to understand what im tryna do. to check out some afro hair shampoos, the cheap ones and the ones that make you live in a box for a month. aka tha espensive ones
but one thing i actually dont get how to do is the percentages tho. im mad bad at that. anywhere i can get that on lock? maybe your “how to become a better chemist book”?
hahaa thank yall tho.
i tried this for my low porosity hair. this be good to me
https://organigrowhairco.com/collections/shampoo/products/growpoo-clarifying-shampooi aint try this one tho
https://www.sheamoisture.com/mongongo-and-hemp-seed-oils-high-porosity-moisture-seal-shampoo/764302202042.htmlhttps://www.healthline.com/health/apple-cider-vinegar-hair
Perry
ngarayeva001
Belassi (yes vinegar) -
and if yall thought that was messed up. go check out my low porosity one.
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Water QS to 100
Slippery elm 1
Aloe Vera 10
Coco betaine 10
Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate 20
Apple cider vinegar 3
Citric acid QS to adjust pH to 5.6
Shea butter .05 to 1 (maximum)
Silk protein 1
Wheat amino acids 1
glycerin 3
Cetyl alcohol DELETE
Xanthan Gum 0.5
Preservative of your choice
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@margi - One of the things you have to realize is that companies put many ingredients in formulas for marketing reasons only.
Apple cider vinegar will not “close the cuticle.” I know people on the Internet think it does and that is why companies put it in their products. But the reality is that it doesn’t and consumers would have no way of telling whether their cuticle is open or closed. If you get your hair wet, your cuticles will be “open.” It doesn’t matter what is in your formula.
Let’s look at the example you shared from sheamoistrue. This is their ingredient list…
Water, Decyl Glucoside, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Sodium Cocoyl lsethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Glycol Distearate, Glycerin (Vegetable), Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Panthenol, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter**, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Ricinodendron Rautanenii (Mongongo) Oil, Cannabis Sativa (Hemp) Seed Oil, Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Hydrolyzed Adansonia Digitata Seed Extract, Avena Sativa (Oat) Peptide, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Chondrus Crispus Extract, Vinegar, Fragrance (Essential Oil Blend), Sodium Benzoate, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Caprylyl Glycol
I could make a product that works pretty much exactly the same using only the following ingredients…Water, Decyl Glucoside, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Sodium Cocoyl lsethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Glycol Distearate, Glycerin (Vegetable), Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Essential Oil Blend), Sodium Benzoate, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Caprylyl Glycol
Everything I’ve omitted is simply a marketing ingredient included to help boost their marketing story. -
There’s a weird tendency nowadays to go back to middle ages. There’s an entire community in the internet who religiously advise against washing hair. All these co-washes, nopoo whatever.. I am all for progress, but progress is when you go from caustic soap to SLES not when you go from SLES to washing hair with shea butter and rinsing with vinegar.
Regarding repeating and emphasizing that silicones ‘don’t do you right’, you are either not using the right silicones or not using the right amount. -
MarkBroussard thank you
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i know i know, but since im low porosity and all, my hair gets build up. and its more in to the no silicones shampoos,and that kind of stuff.
and of coures i dont know to much about formulating today, so you know i trust what u say, just kinda hard to wrap my head around that its SOOOO much they putting in, just because.but thank you tho, fr
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yea aight. but its kinda like for high porosity tho. and correct me if im wrong ( again (lol)) but that shampoo looks like its gonna leav the hair dry, you know they get frizzy, and dry and it brakes and so on. but yea i get they dont need all of those other ingridients tho.
thanks for the help tho.
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Add 4% Betaine and 0.5% Babassu Oil or 0.5% Coconut Oil and that will help tame the frizzies.
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thank you, appreciate it. MarkBroussard
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@MarkBroussard, you mean trimethylglicine not CAPB right? I read in the supplier’s brochure it has some benefits for hair but decided to keep it for leave on products, because it was pricey..
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Correct: Betaine = Trimethylglycin … it’s an osmolyte that helps to retain water and penetrates the hair shaft.
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Thank you
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Perry said:I could make a product that works pretty much exactly the same using only the following ingredients…Water, Decyl Glucoside, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Sodium Cocoyl lsethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Glycol Distearate, Glycerin (Vegetable), Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Essential Oil Blend), Sodium Benzoate, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Caprylyl Glycol
Everything I’ve omitted is simply a marketing ingredient included to help boost their marketing story.
I hope I’m not hijacking the thread but what would be theoretical usage rate for Decyl Glucoside? It is coming in first behind water. Wouldn’t some pH adjustment be needed or the Sodium Benzoate would not do its job ?
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It depends on the formula but 15% or so would be a place to start.
Yes, you’d need something to adjust the pH to make the sodium benzoate work.
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