[vince]

thank you for the information everyone!

[vince]

 thank you Mark, I appreciate it

@PhilGeis would I be able to drop it down to 6 or 6.5, or is that still too high?

[vince]

@MarkBroussard

Considering there’s a 50% failure rate for leuicidal products I’d rather not use it at all. 

I actually have another preservative in mind, euxyl Pe 9010 which is made up of 

• Phenoxyethanol          90.0%
• Ethylhexylglycerin     10.0%

Can I use that combination alone or do I still need to add sodium benzoate?

[vince]

Graillotion said:

vince said:

PhilGeis said:

To Graillotion’s point

Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

Thank you for sharing this article, it’s definitely eye opening and I am glad I asked about the Leucidal “preservative” before formulating more and more products with them. The cloudiness on the sample product I made just didn’t sit well with me and I wanted to know why it happened and if there was a way to get rid of it. However, after reading into it, Id rather move on to a  preservative that actually works… what are your suggestions on preservatives? 

Are there any preservatives that work that don’t release formaldehyde ? 

If you follow this link… Dr Geis did a presentation on preservation.  It is the second one.

Enjoy.

Past Webinar Library? — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)

Thanks man, I appreciate it 👍

[vince]

PhilGeis said:

To Graillotion’s point

Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

Thank you for sharing this article, it’s definitely eye opening and I am glad I asked about the Leucidal “preservative” before formulating more and more products with them. The cloudiness on the sample product I made just didn’t sit well with me and I wanted to know why it happened and if there was a way to get rid of it. However, after reading into it, Id rather move on to a  preservative that actually works… what are your suggestions on preservatives? 

Are there any preservatives that work that don’t release formaldehyde ? 

[vince]

Cool, thank you @MarkBroussard 

I definitely want to keep the products at a 7.0 to 7.5 ph range. On another topic related to my formulating…. What preservative do you recommend I use? I wanted to use Leucidal sf max with amticide coconut as i had researched and they are supposed to be good natural preservatives, however, i was told in a separate thread they pretty much are not good preservatives. I am trying to avoid formaldehyde releasers so i want to avoid germall + but so far, its the preservative i keep hearing is the best option.

[vince]

Thank you all for your input. So say ph isn’t too relevant for shampoo, but what about a leave in conditioner or deodorizing spray for the pup? Wouldn’t it be better to have it ph balanced?

@MarkBroussard thank you, I will definitely give the surfactants you mentioned a try. I was debating whether I should use decyl glucoside or coco Glucoside but now that you mentioned the downside of decyl glucoside I rather go with coco glucoside. Also, what do you think of using AOS-40 and capryl glucoside? I already have those in my inventory. Would these be too harsh for dogs?

[vince]

MarkBroussard said:

@Vince:

You are correct.  When formulating for dogs you will want to keep the pH between 7.0 and 7.5.  There are numerous studies documenting that the pH of dog skin is more alkaline than human skin and it varies by breed.  Use gentle surfactants as though you were formulating for a human baby and do a final pH adjustment of your concoction to the 7.0-7.5 range.

Thank you for the advise Mark.
I know you mentioned to use gentle surfactants and i had a couple in mind but the PH rate should be around 3.0 - 5.0 when using, for example, decyl glucoside.

So do you know of any gentle surfactants that have a higher ph tolerance?

[vince]

PhilGeis said:

Vince - curious the research that recommended those.  There not effective in anything.
Folks use  the same preservatives in human products - incl. isothiazolinones and formaldehyde releasers such as the Germall+ your colleague uses.  Look on labels.

I was looking at many different articles that talk about preservatives. I wanted to bring pet products to the market with more natural preservatives and leuicidal sf max seemed like a good one when combined, leuicidal is supposed to work as an antibacterial while amtcide coconut protects against yeast and mold.

Are there any other good preservatives, in your experience, that can compare to germall + without formaldehyde? 

[vince]

Microformulation said:

Preservatives are a HUGE area of study and you need to read up on them. There is no magic bullet, they are Formula dependent, and multiple factors come into play.

Leucidal products are infamous for preservative failures.

I would recommend reading something perhaps from David Steinberg and other authors vice web citations. David did a great presentation to SCC as an overview on preservation and the pdf can still be downloaded.

Thank you for the advice! i will definitely read into this !

[vince]

Graillotion said:

Not an effective product for humans… What makes you think it will be for pets?

Best way to get rid of the cloudiness is to use a proven product.

I did some research on preservatives and its supposed to be an effective when using both combined.

What preservatives do you recommend?

[vince]

Hi Pharma,
I did search for this topic, unfortunately, i did not find anything on my end. Do you have a link for that discussion?

There are some articles i read on google about dogs having a higher ph than humans, hence needing products with a ph around 7 . Is this information wrong?
If so, what should the ideal PH be??

Thank you for your help