Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating LEUCIDAL SF MAX & AMTICIDE COCONUT

  • LEUCIDAL SF MAX & AMTICIDE COCONUT

    Posted by vince on November 9, 2022 at 4:45 am

    Hello everyone,
    I am working on formulating pet products such as shampoos, sprays, etc. with as many ecocert ingredients as possible and came across leuicidal sf max & amticide coconut. It has a wide ph range that works best for my needs, however, I noticed it leaves a very cloudy look to the product I used it on (dog spray)
    I heard from another formulator that this is the way these 2 preservatives look for most of her products too which is why she is switching to liquid germal plus. (a preservative i dont really want to use)

    Is there a way to get rid of the cloudyness and white stuff when using leucidal sf max and amticide coconut? 

    Thank you so much in advance !

    PhilGeis replied 1 year, 3 months ago 5 Members · 20 Replies
  • 20 Replies
  • Graillotion

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 5:12 am

    Not an effective product for humans… What makes you think it will be for pets?

    Best way to get rid of the cloudiness is to use a proven product.

  • vince

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    Not an effective product for humans… What makes you think it will be for pets?

    Best way to get rid of the cloudiness is to use a proven product.

    I did some research on preservatives and its supposed to be an effective when using both combined.

    What preservatives do you recommend?

  • Microformulation

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 7:06 pm
    Preservatives are a HUGE area of study and you need to read up on them. There is no magic bullet, they are Formula dependent, and multiple factors come into play.
    Leucidal products are infamous for preservative failures.
    I would recommend reading something perhaps from David Steinberg and other authors vice web citations. David did a great presentation to SCC as an overview on preservation and the pdf can still be downloaded.
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 7:08 pm

    Vince - curious the research that recommended those.  There not effective in anything.
    Folks use  the same preservatives in human products - incl. isothiazolinones and formaldehyde releasers such as the Germall+ your colleague uses.  Look on labels.

  • vince

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 9:29 pm

    Preservatives are a HUGE area of study and you need to read up on them. There is no magic bullet, they are Formula dependent, and multiple factors come into play.
    Leucidal products are infamous for preservative failures.
    I would recommend reading something perhaps from David Steinberg and other authors vice web citations. David did a great presentation to SCC as an overview on preservation and the pdf can still be downloaded.

    Thank you for the advice! i will definitely read into this !

  • vince

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 9:33 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Vince - curious the research that recommended those.  There not effective in anything.
    Folks use  the same preservatives in human products - incl. isothiazolinones and formaldehyde releasers such as the Germall+ your colleague uses.  Look on labels.

    I was looking at many different articles that talk about preservatives. I wanted to bring pet products to the market with more natural preservatives and leuicidal sf max seemed like a good one when combined, leuicidal is supposed to work as an antibacterial while amtcide coconut protects against yeast and mold.

    Are there any other good preservatives, in your experience, that can compare to germall + without formaldehyde? 

  • Graillotion

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 10:06 pm

    vince said:

    PhilGeis said:

    Vince - curious the research that recommended those.  There not effective in anything.
    Folks use  the same preservatives in human products - incl. isothiazolinones and formaldehyde releasers such as the Germall+ your colleague uses.  Look on labels.

    I was looking at many different articles that talk about preservatives. I wanted to bring pet products to the market with more natural preservatives and leuicidal sf max seemed like a good one when combined, leuicidal is supposed to work as an antibacterial while amtcide coconut protects against yeast and mold.

    Are there any other good preservatives, in your experience, that can compare to germall + without formaldehyde? 

    Oh so funny…. thinking a dead ferment has ANY preservation qualities.  Maybe you could explain how a DEAD ferment can kill anything?  (The dead ferment…is just the distraction for the other ingredients hidden therein.  A generation before, the distraction was called Grapefruit seed extract.)

    Actually….if you dig…and I’ll let you do that valuable (learning experience)… The ONLY aspect in that dead ferment that kills anything…is the ingredients they used to kill the ferment…and did not list on the ingredient panel (process exemption).

    If you do not find the scientific information quickly…. I will link it tomorrow….but you should find it for yourself.  (Even if you use the search bar on this site…you’ll find what you need to find.)

  • Graillotion

    Member
    November 9, 2022 at 10:37 pm

    If you put your science hat on for a moment….what is a ferment?  It is a system that favor’s a certain type of bacteria.  It is literally crawling with bacteria….just ones that produce lactic acid, which in turn creates a selective environment for a select group of residents.  So, KimChee is far from bacteria free… think cheese, yogurt etc.  They simply selected for bacteria that are not harmful when we consume them, and produce an acidic environment that the more harmful bacteria find inhospitable.  This system of course requires constant input of the excrement from the residents….lactic acid.

    So the concept…is just … roll of the floor funny…when you try and apply it to cosmetics.  Friendly bacteria is cosmetics …. is a concept that is trying to find a foothold….but not there yet.

    Of course, the Luecidal product….all the ‘good’ bacteria have been killed.  So, you have nothing left…but bacteria corpses and their excrement.  (And of course the preservatives they used to terminate the good bacteria.)

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    November 10, 2022 at 12:51 am

    To Graillotion’s point

    Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

  • Graillotion

    Member
    November 10, 2022 at 2:28 am

    PhilGeis said:

    To Graillotion’s point

    Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

    Awwhhhh… Make um work for it.  

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    November 10, 2022 at 1:29 pm

    @Graillotion - good point!

  • vince

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 3:08 am

    PhilGeis said:

    To Graillotion’s point

    Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

    Thank you for sharing this article, it’s definitely eye opening and I am glad I asked about the Leucidal “preservative” before formulating more and more products with them. The cloudiness on the sample product I made just didn’t sit well with me and I wanted to know why it happened and if there was a way to get rid of it. However, after reading into it, Id rather move on to a  preservative that actually works… what are your suggestions on preservatives? 

    Are there any preservatives that work that don’t release formaldehyde ? 
  • Graillotion

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 4:33 am

    vince said:

    PhilGeis said:

    To Graillotion’s point

    Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

    Thank you for sharing this article, it’s definitely eye opening and I am glad I asked about the Leucidal “preservative” before formulating more and more products with them. The cloudiness on the sample product I made just didn’t sit well with me and I wanted to know why it happened and if there was a way to get rid of it. However, after reading into it, Id rather move on to a  preservative that actually works… what are your suggestions on preservatives? 

    Are there any preservatives that work that don’t release formaldehyde ? 

    If you follow this link… Dr Geis did a presentation on preservation.  It is the second one.

    Enjoy.

    Past Webinar Library? — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)

  • vince

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 6:26 am

    vince said:

    PhilGeis said:

    To Graillotion’s point

    Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5063588

    Thank you for sharing this article, it’s definitely eye opening and I am glad I asked about the Leucidal “preservative” before formulating more and more products with them. The cloudiness on the sample product I made just didn’t sit well with me and I wanted to know why it happened and if there was a way to get rid of it. However, after reading into it, Id rather move on to a  preservative that actually works… what are your suggestions on preservatives? 

    Are there any preservatives that work that don’t release formaldehyde ? 

    If you follow this link… Dr Geis did a presentation on preservation.  It is the second one.

    Enjoy.

    Past Webinar Library? — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)

    Thanks man, I appreciate it ????
  • Nessa

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 8:03 am

    FDA is now investigating the Lecidal

    4-7 companies that made products with it and consumers had bad reactions to the products. I am now wondering the truth behind this one not listed on dirty list but listed everywhere else

  • Nessa

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 8:10 am

    Lecidal - 1 beauty company claimed the finish product contained methylisothiazolinone

    Another baby industry company took each product and did extensive testing and it appears that Lecidal came up as a small amount of methylisothiazolinone

    I’m not sure if the company is referring to the finished product or the actual product

    FDA is involved.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      March 15, 2023 at 3:37 pm

      WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over due!

      Do you have any links to this info?

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 10:16 am

    And remember the enviro-angst-ers wringing their hands over parabens in sunscreen killing coral reefs? Of course the data supporting the claim were Darbre-caliber irrelevant and meaningless.

    BUT a coral reef-isolated marine bacterium was shown to produce parabens. No data offered that it produced parabens while on an actual reef but it is natural reef flora.

    Discovery of a Marine Bacterium Producing 4-Hydroxybenzoate and Its Alkyl Esters, Parabens

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=3dbac0e854cbeb26d0d324fd9682b07b2dabf141

    • Graillotion

      Member
      March 15, 2023 at 4:06 pm

      Do you have any links to this investigation by the FDA @PhilGeis ? A cursory glance through Google, I could not find a methylisothiazolinone and AMT hit.

      Aloha

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 4:19 pm

    I’ve not heard anything about Leucidal and methylisothiazolinone. I hope it’s not true - I’ve met the Leucidal folks. They didn’t seem the type to salt the mine - just folks selling an ineffective product.

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