[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@KetchioThanks for your suggestion. Hopefully it should work.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Just forgot to mention name the L-15 repacker from India. Yasham Specialities do repack it. Is it convenient for you to buy from INDIA ? Let me know. I can share contact of their executive.

Will they be able to sell in your region ?… I don’t know.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

I have used both. C12-15 is a heavier ester. It can be a partial or full replacement for LLP. Sensory of Dicaprylyl carbonate is much better than L-15. I felt it Less absorbing with some oily residue. Comparable to Cetiol ultimate. C12-15 + Dicaprylil Carbonate creates remarkable sensory.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

I think C 12-15 Alkyl Benzoate can come close to Mineral oil.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

I very regularly use PEG-150 DS without any issues. As Matt pointed out add it above 65 degrees. Also since you are using hot process, you can replace texapon with EGDS/ EGMS. Continue the heating to 75-80 degrees. Don’t forget to stir it continuously till cool down. Also better to add CAPB in cool down phase as last ingredient. This will facilitate mixing of other ingredients.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@ketchito Yes I too love MBBT, mainly because it can directly be added to the emulsion during cool down & protect from UVA & UVB both.

DHHB,though added @2% covers UVA 1 & UVA 2 & in combination, the system provides broad spectrum Protection.

You are correct. MBBT approval is pending in USA under Time & Extend application. But since this product is for Indian domestic market I have no worries.

This combination has UVA/ UVB ratio of 0.8 & UVA☆☆☆☆ along with PA++ ratings as per simulator prediction.

Thanks for your concerns @ketchito

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@zoya, Thank you very much for your suggestions. The basic idea to include sepinov EMT-10 was it’s non -tixotropic behavior much needed in sunscreen formulations & sepimax zen for good pick up.

Yes. You are correct. Reducing their % may affect the viscosity.

I have not yet tested for spf. But surely I will get it done prior to commercial production. However this spf is predicted by BASF simulator; & so far in my experience the actual spf is always more than the simulator predicted spf.

Thank you once again.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@Perry44, yes.Exactly pin pointed. This was my dilemma.

I was not in mood to disturb the formula & you confirmed it. Thank you so much.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thanks @Perry44 for the comments. Agreed; without samples it is difficult to share feedback. The batch is stable & consumers do like the feel.

However I had a doubt about the combination of conventional emulsifier @ 2.5%, & polymeric emulsifiers @ 1.5 +0.40 %. Am I not increasing the cost of the formula ? Shall I reduce polymeric emulsifiers to bellow 1% ? Will decreasing polymerics destabilize the emulsion during shelf life ?

Thank you @Perry44 once again.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Ok. Thank you once again @ketchito .Hopefully my client will approve it.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@ketchito, Sorry for the delay. But the Good news is today I got success to thicken the Sodium Lauryl sarcosinate & Sodium Cocyl Glycinate surfactant system with Aculyne-88. ????????

Waiting for the bubbles to collapse.

Another thing I would like to know is ; can we add Polyquaternium -7( 39% active from BASF)OR GHTC to these systems. ( as conditioning agent) And if yes shall I have to follow certain order of addition?

What could be the approximate %

Kindly confirm.

Thank you very much for your kind help through out this face wash formulating journey.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@ketchito, just one query - hope you don’t mind.????

While using Acrylates co-polymer/ Acculyn 88 in shampoo, when should we add Dimethicone? Before or after addition of thickners so that it will remain well suspended through out the product shelf life.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thanks once again. Client require only 100 kg. So it seems difficult to purchase the crothix liquid. Also croda has their own style of functioning.

I will ask about balance sulfonate stock to the contract manufacturer. Other wise it also will create a difficult situation as it comes only as 210 kg Pack.

But I can manage small pack of Sodium Cocyl Glutamate ( I know it is also difficult to thicken ).

Btw, are you not sure about Aculyne-88?

I have easy access to HEC, sepimax zen. Kindly suggest.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

I assume that your cetrimonium is cetrimonium chloride. You are adding a cationic ingredient to an anoinic system. It won’t be stable. What is that ‘ active ‘ in your formula ? And what was the pH ?

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thank you @ketchito . I had tried this Formulation at different viscosities but the Acrylates co-polymer provides optimum viscosity & clarity at pH 6.5.

What can be the other route?

Shall I increase active % of anoinic surfactant or shall I increase CAPB ?

Does replacement in part or total of CAPB with Sodium coco-amphoacetate can increase the viscosity?

Shall I add Lauryl Glucoside?

Will Aculyne-88 can resolve this issue ?

Your reply really really gave me a moral boost. Thank you once again

????

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

@ketchito, one more query :-can we recover a failed conditioner batch ?

Kindly advise a protocol to save it.

Thanks in advance.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Yes. LLP is Light Liquid Paraffin

SOP:- Heat water phase & oil phase ingredients separately to 80 deg Celsius.

Add oil phase to water phase under stirring.

Continue stirring( including homogenization for 5 minutes) for 45 min.

Apply cooling & continue stirring.

Add preservative & fragrance bellow 40 degree celcius.

Adjust the pH with TEA .

Today I made a trial batch with bellow mentioned changes-

Emulsifying wax 3%

Cetearyl alcohol - not added

Glyceryl stearate NSE

Sodium stearoyl Lactylate 0.5%

Stearic acid 0.5%

TEA 0.04%

carbopol 0.20%

Batch seems to be good in terms of viscosity & appearance. I will update in due course.

Mean while pl share your opinion regarding the problem of seperation so that I shall try another small batch. Thank you very much.

BTW :- You have helped me a lot during my Hair conditioner project. The project was successfully launched. I am much obliged to you.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thank you very much sir.????????

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

????????very true. I really wonder how others use Sodium Cocyl Glutamate?

I will check with clarirent about Ginapol LT. Simultaneously I will try Aculyne-88. Let you know the trial results asap( may take few days since I am occupied with family function).

Thanks Ketchito. Once again you are very helpful to me as usual .????????

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

One batch is not flowable but it needs some body. In short the pick up of the batch with finger is not solid gives a feeling of hollow ness. It has to be tuned up slightly.

Another batch is slightly flowable, for that I was asking the process of recovery.

Waiting eagerly for your valuable suggestions. Thanks with warm regards.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Update:- I tried melting BTAC with whole oil phase & added slowly to heated water phase, but I found this process a bit cumbersome so I followed desolving BTAC in heated water phase.

Made a batch of 80 kg. The batch is stable but needs some improvement. The most difficult moments are addition of fragrance. How slow/ gradually you add fragrance, still loss of viscosity is inevitable.

Earlier to overcome this issue I have added…. Sodium chloride @ 0.05% @ 40 degree Celsius Also tried to add Cetereth20 @ 0.40%

but still couldn’t get any viscosity improvement.

What could be the reason?

Is the quantity insufficient or otherwise. Kindly advise.

BTW does addition of cetereth 20 has any impact on molar ratio calculations?

Thank you for bearing with me.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thanks a lot. I shall follow this process for tomorrow’s batch & will update.

BTW, today I prepared one commercial batch with 1:4 molar ratio, without cetereth 20 & Sodium chloride. Hope this will be texurised up to the expectations within couple of days.

I am overwhelmed with your technical support. I feel myself very lucky to be linked with this forum. I am & will always remain grateful to you Ketchito.

Thank you once again.

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

I have gone through clarient recommendations ( which you mentioned in one of the discussion), they recommend BTAC & hydrophilic emulsifyer such as cetereth 20 in our case to be melted together & water to be added to this phase. Where as I use to melt BTAC in hot water ; heat silicones & cetereth 20 separately & add it to BTAC solution. My process doesn’t seem to be inline with clarient recommendations. Does it has any impact on stability/ viscosity?

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Yes. Thanks once again. Today shall make a commercial batch & share the update. Just wondering How these MNCs can manage it without HEC/ Cetereth 20 ?

[SunilHiwarkat1965]

Thank you for your suggestions.

If it doesn’t work well with BTAC & Cetostearyl alcohol, I have no other option than HEC.

Will update here once I take batch.