[simona]

this one looks so interesting! I hope I will be able to chime in! 

THanks for sharing! 

[simona]

Yes, I already realized that I am one of the small fish and I still need to rely on other suppliers for a bunch of ingredients! 

I already found an italian web site which sells it, so need to check my budget as shipping is not cheap and I feel like a kid in the candy store! 

[simona]

Well, my access to request a sample from Evonik was I existent so I think I only assumed they were from the US ;!

I found however one other supplier and I just contacted them. But just in case this does not work, what coul I use as a substitute in hair care formulation?

[simona]

Am I wrong? Isn’t this an essential oil?? Why thicken an EO?

[simona]

I wonder - those Ascorbic Acid products with no water- is there a special grind “type” I should be looking for when buying the vitamin, if I want to make it at home? The ascorbic acid I have is really gritty and I can’t rub it against my skin if not solubilized.

So, what type of AA should I search for, if I wanted to create a suspension in silicone ? which are the key words or, better, which should be the max particle size? 

Can i also try to grind it at home (mortar/pestle or coffee grinder) to get a finer powder with no gritty feeling on the skin? 

[simona]

Sorry , everyone, I had a couple of really difficult weeks in the office so I could not focus on anything else. 

@DavidW - what I indend to do is a leave in 2% SA exfoliating gel. I am planning for the next week to use 1% Na Citrate, when I will have some spare time. Also, thinking to use 15% PG from start. the pH I am aiming to reach is 3.5 - 3.8. Preferably 3.5.

THanks, everyone, for all advices! I will definitelly follow up here with my next experiment’s results. 

[simona]

@Vitalys,

Alcohol irritates my skin, so I really want to avoid it. It becomes red and it swells - same with fragrances. I am better since I skipped alcohol , 2 years ago.

Indeed, ethanol is the simplest way , but sadly not for me. I should order some butylene glycol and study more into how to use Na Citrate (I’ll test when I have the time).

And indeed, my skin is oily, it’s not hyperhydrosis. And blackheads prone. 

thanks a lot for your insights!

[simona]

Thanks, @milliachemist!

[simona]

Thanks, Milliachemist! 

My product is intended for a daily use (twice) , morning and evening, as leave in treatment for my very oily skin, prone to blackheads. So my other concern is whether I should use that much solvents (40% ) or not. I am not sure how PC’s product is made, if they have the same amount of MPD + BG or not, so… would it be safe ?

and yes, I wear sunscreen 30 and above on a daily basis. 

[simona]

=====

PART 2

=====

3. I used a product from Paula’s Choice and I am puzzled by their recipe: 

Water, Methylpropanediol, Butylene Glycol (slip agents/penetration enhancers), Salicylic Acid (beta hydroxy acid/exfoliant), Camellia Oleifera (Green Tea) Leaf Extract (anti-irritant/antioxidant), Polysorbate-20 (solubolizing agent), Sodium Hydroxide (pH balancer), Tetrasodium EDTA (chelating agent).

a. how come their product is crystal clear? As I add PS-20, my solution turns milky of various degrees. Is the PS-20 in such a low percentage that the solution clarity is not affected? 

b. how much solvents would you say they use? MPD and BG - could they be more than 10%? 20%? I only have propylene glycol, dipropylene glycol, ethoxydiglycol  and some MPD that I can use and, as these do not come cheap and from my country, I can’t afford to test too much and waste ingredients. 

c. the pH is low - 3.5-3.8. Why do they use tetrasodium EDTA ? I would have thought that perhaps disodium EDTA would have been a better choice, can anyone shed some light here? 

d. green tea extract is amber brown. How much would they use to have a crystal clear solution, no colour? less than .5%? Just curious on the matter

I also remember someone posting a chart on how much PG (and also various other solvents) are needed to solubilize 2g of SA. There was also another chart, can’t find it now, but it was saying than a 40% propylene glycol solution in water can solubilize 2% SA . Would it make sense for the PC product above to have such a high % of solvents, or is there another production trick I am not aware of, like addint tetrasodium EDTA or NaOH solution to the sa + solvents mix prior to adding the rest of the water?

Going to work now, as I already ask too many questions. They may be stupid, as I do not have the chem. background and all my knowledge comes form experimenting and reading whatever I can on my own, so please forgive me if I talk too much

All inputs highly appreciated! 

p.s. I know that ethanol is a great solvent for SA , but I avoid it on my skin, so I am stuck to other solvents

[simona]

http://www.paulaschoice.com/shop/skin-care-categories/antioxidants/_/RESIST-Intensive-Wrinkle-Repair-Retinol-Serum/

check this one out - it’s a silicone based retinol serum

[simona]

I also found this paper, but as a homecrafter I am not in a position to spend the money for the document ..

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924203106000877?_fmt=high&_origin=browse&md5=70f2d5cc2ca22ccd4565b0d397e7581c

<feeling frustrated>

---

The thing is - I want to incorporate it at 10% and not overuse the emulsifiers (I want to have a serum as light as possible). So  I really need some reliable info regarding its HLB value. 

Many thanks! 

[simona]

ELDEskin - it all depends on your overall formula, the type of oils you choose, other additives…. IMHO, use an HLB calculator to check the recommended % of glyceryl stearate and sodium stearoyl lactylate in your formula.

[simona]

@ELDEskin - in my oppinion, saying that you do not use synthetics is a non sense. All your emulsifiers (and preservatives and proteins and so on) are synthesized in a lab in a controlled environment, they do not grow on trees…. 

Is this product intended for face or body? what type of skin? 

[simona]

personally, I use lactic acid and not citric as LA comes in a liquid form and for me it is easier to add it to the product

[simona]

You could consider this kind of recipient for your gel - if you live in Europe. I am also trying to make my own deodorant stick, but not because I have developed any dermatitis due to the ingredients, but for the fun of it, and 3 of the ingredients available in the EU market (for homecrafters such as you and me) are listed here :
- bacti-pur - INCI: Candida bombicola
/ glucose / methyl rapeseedate ferment, water, potassium sorbate
- deodorant complex - INCI: Triethyl
citrate, Farnesol
- alum stoner (powder) - INCI: potassium alum.

Another ingredient is indeed zinc ricinoleate (sold by other small suppliers), I have not used it as I find it too expensive (and I have to sum up quite an order to make it acceptable cost-wise )

You may also consider Usnea Barbata CO2 extract - it is said that the usnic acid has antiseptic/antiinflamatory properties

We do not get to see any triclosan or silicone gels, not even sodium stearate to make the clear stick gels , so homecrafters just use the above ingredients .

I have used farnesol / triethyl citrate in my deodorant and during the warmer months it works OK-ish, and I do sweat a lot. Potassium alum also helped overnight in reducing the body odor, but for more active days and job-related I often still use aluminum derivatives in the commercial products.

Keep us posted with your recipe/results, if you do not mind sharing, and GOOD LUCK!

[simona]

why not use ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate instead?

[simona]

@Perry - thanks for the hint - will do either that or just copy-paste in notepad and take the pure text from there !

[simona]

LOL , that is what I love about making my own skincare. Now, what would something like that cost on the shelves - marketing and international brand added? ))

Plus, it’s so much fun in changing the recipe each month and adding the other half of oil soluble actives one has bought….

[simona]

p.s. is there a nice way to copy-paste here from a spreadsheet?

[simona]

so, for those wondering what I actually did after asking for your advice, here’s my serum of the month. It’s still very liquid, so next time I’ll increase Methyl Glucose Sesquistearate to 6% (the max I would actually go) and see how it feels. It does have a wonderful scent thanks to all the fragrant components (pomegranate, calendula, chamomile, green tea and jasmine), so I will go ahead and to the testing!

Simmonsdia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil    28,47
Coco-Caprylate    13,02
punica granatum (pomegranate) seed oil    11,53
squalane &d-mixed tocopherols & ubiquinone    11,53
cannabis sativa (hemp) sed oil     11,53
dicaprylyl carbonate    5,76
Jasminum sambac (Jasmine) Wax    3,46
Dimethicone    2,31
Methyl Glucose Sesquistearate    2,31
Phospholipids, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil    2,31
ceramide-3, Olive Glycerides    2,31
Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe) Extract, Caprylic / Capric triglycerides    1,45
bisabolol    1,15
Calendula Officinalis Flower Extract, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil    0,92
dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate    0,58
d-mixed tocopherols    0,58
Calndula Officinalis Flower Extract     0,35
Chamomilla Recutita Flower Extract    0,35
Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Wax    0,12

[simona]

Well, i enjoy blue cheese but I would not spread it on my skin…

Our digestive system is a bit different than our skin, so I would put on my skin what I would not be eating…

[simona]

Thanks for the advice, @milliachemist! indeed, I am using the cyclomethicone offered by gracefruit (decamethylcyclopentasiloxane) along with Dimethicone 1000cs. And, as my other oils are high in linoleic / low in oleic, the result is pretty pleasant for the skin.

I may try to be wild and use some floral wax - even though I tend to stay away from fragrance on my skin

[simona]

I’m not a fan of petrolatum, but I do have some in a jar so I will experiment with 3%  - not sure if this would prove to be a problem for my pores or not. Anyway, 2-3 drops of the entire stuff should do it and , as I do 10ml batches, I would not waste too many “goodies” . BTW - for Dimethicone 1000cs what would you say it would be the highest % I could use for such a serum? I did not dare to go with more than 3% so far…

[simona]

@milliachemist - indeed this helps a bit I only have some Dimethicone 1000cs - but I am not sure how high I can go with it in a facial serum. It’s wintertime, I will enjoy the protection it would offer, but I also wish to have more room for some useful oils & extract that I am planning to use.

Clearly I am unable to get anything but cyclomethicone & dimethicone (form Gracefruit) - no other EU supplier sells it and buying from Lotioncrafter who has a wider range or silicones is not an option due to the low flash point + high shipping rates.

I will go ahead and just use some waxes/emulsifiers that my skin loves and … se what comes out of that