[Richard]

Just a thought about Germall Plus from my days of using Diazolidinyl Urea. I assume the order you have listed the ingredients in is the order of addition. This would mean water phase is likely to be heated to around at least 70C. I wonder if the Diaz. Urea could be inactivated to some degree by the elevated temperature. So I wonder if it would be better added as part of the cooling process.

[Richard]

Milk products are seen as highly nutritious when taken internally. Is it the same when applied externally? One of the problems with milk products is the high bacterial loading which has potential to flow through into the finished product. And believe me, I have learnt the hard way about the bacterial loading of food grade raw materials being added to skincare products. But that doesn’t stop brands wanting to leverage off the “good”. If you are adamant about this direction, then I would look at adding a label claim amount of milk and I recall from some years ago that I think Croda had a milk powder they sold into personal care. Either that or you could consider using a small amount of UHT milk. And then depending on what claims you are interested in I would then consider adding a microbiome Bacillus ferment product that has been developed for personal care. And of course you would need to perform the usual PET and stability.

[Richard]

I agree pretty much with the above comments. It looks pretty much like a “sorbolene” cream with a little more glycerin. I don’t see much to irritate but the absence of a preservative is a worry. And with such a small oil phase I agree the emulsifier content could probably be reduced.

[Richard]

Ah the joys of clients bringing in formulations that may or may not work. As a manufacturer it would always be prudent for you to make it up anyway before production and possibly even doing some stability on it. However, that shouldn’t give your client access to some free development work. I would consider asking for an upfront payment for you do this work with an option to rebate all or some of it once you pack the first run. That being said they should also understand that if you need to do any modifications/improvements/changes/more stability then they should be prepared to pay for this also because at the end of the day it is in both of your interests to have a good quality product in the market.

[Richard]

For a water based mascara I would be aiming for a pH higher than where DHA is going to be effective. This would limit the preservatives to those effective around pH 7 - Phenoxyethanol, Phenethyl alcohol, diols. It just depends how natural you need to be.

For anhydrous formulations I don’t think I would use DHA although you should probably figure out if you need a preservative. But just because of where the product is going to be used I would give serious consideration to something fat soluble - Glyceryl Caprylate, Caprate

[Richard]

For me it would depend on the channel.
For FMCG I would go with SLES.
For “Natural” including FMCG I would use SCS.
So I guess in order of preference I would go with (if possible) SLES, then SCS and finally SLS.

[Richard]

Have you considered one of the liquid shea butters or tamanu oil? Although the smell of tamnu may be an issue.

[Richard]

Agree. There is a high solid content for it to be softish at low temperatures.

[Richard]

Herbnerd said:

My most challenging aspect of any formulation work is a micromanaging boss (only experience is in alcoholic beverages and ice-cream) micromanaging down to the point of ‘advising’ what ingredients he wants increased/decreased.

The other big challenge I have is a marketing team changing the brief constantly. We are literally 2 weeks away from the first production run of 6 new products - all stability tests completed, micro, abrasion, fluoride stability etc - and now they want to add natural colour and other ingredients to the range - and bring in new international markets for products where we have already completed regulatory checks and formulation changes to accommodate.

I love this one. Give them MBA and suddenly they know everything. Micro managing bosses, no thanks. And the ever responsive marketing team - another of my past challenges. Do what I did and don’t work for anyone again and those problems go away but perhaps replaced by some others such as who is my next client.

[Richard]

We had been producing an exfoliating wash off product for many years without any problems and would have made hundreds of tonnes in the past. 
And then one day we started getting the odd micro issue which soon became quite frequent.
The product was preserved with MCIT/MIT.
The suspending agent was Aqua SF1.
We spent ages looking at the environment and the equipment and cleaning everything up.

No other product was affected by this contamination issue and no changes had been made to the ingredients.
As you would imagine, when a batch was observed from start to finish there were no micro issues.

The problem was solved by accident some time later, after I had left the company.

The Aqua SF 1 requires (a sodium hydroxide) neutralisation step during the process.

So instead of adding the MCIT/MIT directly to the batch (as in the instructions) some of the manufacturers were adding it into the sodium hydroxide mixture so they didn’t need to walk up the stairs to add it. The sodium hydroxide solution would then be pumped in through the bottom of the vessel.
Unfortunately the preservative was being inactivated by the dirty shortcut.

[Richard]

I agree with the above comments regarding unremarkable and there being other (cheaper) similar ingredients. Plus there is also the down side of it’s apparent inability to withstand any heat and it’s storage conditions. Although I have used it in the past also, I would nowadays prefer to use something else that is a bit more robust and there’s tons of alternative ingredients available these days.

[Richard]

As a start I would probably look at reducing HMW HA and removing the glycerin and adding some LMW HA. Also consider reducing panthenol if you are using the 100%.

[Richard]

Like most people already I agree the allantoin solubility is going to be an issue, although I doubt it is the cause for the current sensitivity issues being observed.
I also agree 1% of EO is a very likely candidate.
Plus I also have concerns around the preservative.
I am also interested in knowing what the Hydrosol is-even though it is w/s what else is in it? You could easily test this out by replacing with water.

[Richard]

Rather than asking what is the cost, perhaps better to ask how long will it take to breakdown a formula. And a first cut breakdown should be able to be done fairly quickly in say an hour or so. But to test it then you have to make it up, say another hour or so (assuming you have all of the ingredients) and then compare it to the benchmark. Perhaps it needs a further sample. So allow another hour or so.
The cost would then be down to amount of time and what someone might charge and that is obviously going to vary quite a bit.

[Richard]

Pharma said:

Maybe have a look at some sample formulations, for example by Kobo.

The main difference to you is production methods: they micronise/homogenise (that’s something you can’t do with a coffee grinder) and they press real hard (you’re pressing with probably 2 bar, a bit more if you’re a bodybuilder… they propose about 30 to 60 bar) .

60 bar is when you use your whole body weight to press down 1 square centimetre of powder or you and 8 friends sitting on a 3×3 cm square.

I have to agree here that the Kobo pigments are definitely worth looking further into.

[Richard]

Richard Lawrence
Cosmetic formulator, based in New Zealand.
Contact details:  richardjl2020@gmail.com
Whatsapp: +64 21 842008

I have been formulating all types of cosmetic products, with almost 20 years in the industry. Most recently, most of my products have been in the natural space, although I have also done FMCG and traditional products.
Although I am based in New Zealand I do travel to various shows around the world. I also have Australian customers who I have not met yet but we have communicated through email, Whatsapp and Zoom.

I recently presented a webinar on Stability Testing and the link can be found below.

https://vimeo.com/716516995

[Richard]

I have played around quite a bit with this ingredient and I do like it. I have not subjected it to PET yet as I have had no customers pick up a formulation with it in so far. But generally it doesn’t cause any instability issues in emulsions and I would always use something else with it, perhaps a natural glycol or Lexgard Natural. Although I have not challenged it, I have never had any visible (mould) growth on the surface of my samples. For me, if it is Cosmos certified then I will accept it as natural. One other point I like about it that it can be used up to pH 8 which makes it suitable for mineral based natural sunscreens and natural mascaras.