[raveena]

Graillotion said:

I will toss in this last piece…. a year ago…I was trying to lean on the emulsifier (like Mont 202) to do the heavy lifting (texturally speaking) in my formulas.  I have concluded that was not the best route.  Now, much of the time…I just take the bulletproof 165….and dress it up in fancy clothes.  You can turn that puppy into ANYTHING, with the right add ins…and it will never complain….Something the Montanov’s did all the time.

Thank you so much. It’s very helpful. Always so appreciative of guidance in this forum.

[raveena]

Graillotion said:

When you pull from a mfg website…their goal is to feature the ingredient/s they sell.  So I would consider that a bare bones formula…with not much in the way of elegance, to overshadow their emulsifiers.  As Pharma said…. please…tweak the formula.   
If it were my formula…I would lower the gum level, and increase the support via an anionic emulsifier like GSC.
And of course….add the chelator.

Do I then take the cellulose gum out completely and lower the Solagum amount and add GSC without removing Montanov 68 and 202. Is that correct? Thanks again for your feedback.

[raveena]

@Pattsi
            Thank you for your suggestions. I will give it a go. Fingers crossed it will work.

[raveena]

ariepfadli said:

Essential oil use for its aroma, and you want to use it but wont the aroma, its seem contra

You can make it lower percentage or use non/low odorous oil, or trap the essential oil in wax matrix, but i wonder it will fullfill your requirement.

I know hence the question on this forum. I am hoping if there is such a thing it would be brilliant for my formulation and what I am hoping to achieve.

[raveena]

Graillotion said:

What are you after in the Ginger?  Lots of times the good stuff gets left of the wrong side of the distillation process….and maybe what you’re after…can only be achieved with an extract.  I know in my case…that is true.

The extract has a very mild scent…compared to the EO….(I make my own.)

Just need to know what constituent you are chasing.

I am trying to create a cream or lotion with a sensory feel. Gently providing warmth while improving circulation. I am aware of my emollients for moisturization. I am using VBE but would like to combine it with some other elements that can provide a pleasant feel with a very gentle aroma. I do not want the lotion to smell like a balm. I really appreciate your input on this. 

[raveena]

Paprik said:

Hello, 

you would need to be more specific and share the essential oils. 

You simply cannot mix any essential oils as some may create a horrific smells.
For example Fruity/Floral with Camphorous notes. 

You also need to check for safety limits at IFRA and make sure you follow safety guides. 

Hi Thanks for your reply. I understand the regulations and blends. I tried a blend of Black pepper, Ginger and tried to disguise the aroma with Patchouli oil. The aroma is too strong and smells like a balm. Black pepper is known for improving circulation and ginger also provides warmth. But the aroma is so strong and is not very pleasant at all. I was wondering if there is any technology to isolate the chemical from aroma or a substitute.

[raveena]

Graillotion said:

If there is a particular constituent you are chasing…it often can be found in some of the other EO’s….or even synthetically.

Look for the alternatives, where you might like the scent better.

At the moment…I am looking at caravone, so I have the option of spearmint…or caraway…hehehe.

@Re @Re
Thats an idea. I will try that channel lol. Good luck with your search.

[raveena]

@Perry Thanks, Perry. That means there is no shortcut.

[raveena]

Perry said:

The tests you run and how you make the sample depends on the formula, the actives and what you are testing.

I would suggest starting with some base formula. Just a simple oil in water emulsion. If there is some test you can do that doesn’t require the product to be stable, you can just mix the ingredient into the formula and run the test.

Of course, for most things you won’t be able to do this. So, I’d suggest having a standard formula you use for testing. You can make a big batch of the oil phase. Then store this for later use.  Then when you want to test something, mix the oil phase with the active and then blend with water. That should make a good test prototype.  I personally wouldn’t make a batch smaller than 200g but 400 g is preferred. 

This is just rough screening of materials though. If something makes it through the screening process, you’ll want to do a more formal, start-from-scratch formula.

Hi Perry
Thanks for response. I am sorry can you please elaborate on the batch of oil phase. Would I add the emulsifiers to it and heat it to dissolve as we do but wouldn’t they solidify at room temp?

[raveena]

Vitamin C please Perry. How could I keep it from degrading while formulating with the C. I would like to create a serum with C for as brightening and toning serum. I have read how it can degrade easily. 
Is it the packaging?

[raveena]

@perry Thank you perry for your reply. I am starting to see the clear picture now. Consumer perception and marketing are behind all the hype but it is actually not real. Reading all the comments from the experienced people maybe it’s fair to say that we should we starting with marketing and hype before we even start the formulation. I was one of those consumers so this forum is a real eye-opener. 

[raveena]

Perry said:

Keratin in a shampoo will have no noticeable benefit as far as I’ve seen in practice. It is water soluble and shampoo pretty much washes it all away. If you want smooth and shine from a shampoo, you’ll need a silicone, a cationic polymer or both.  Keratin won’t make a shampoo better.

@perry First of all I am really thankful to this forum as it has cleared lots of misconceptions about various raw materials. I have learnt more from this forum and slowly adding to my knowledge.
I have a question though about silicones why does silicones get such a bad wrap. There are also some natural silicone alternatives in the market. Would they add the shine and smoothness to the hair just like synthetics.

[raveena]

Merry Christmas and Happy new year to everyone. Appreciate all the time the experts devote to help the beginners like us. 

[raveena]

@Perry
         I am really enjoying watching the videos. Very helpful. Thank you for providing such a wonderful resource for beginners.

[raveena]

Hi Perry
            I missed this event. Is there a recording of this event.

[raveena]

suswang8 said:

I believe New Directions might sell the two main components — Cetearyl Glucoside (and) Cetearyl Alcohol?  Either way, I cannot tell you if “68” will give you what you want in terms of feel unless you perhaps try it yourself with a lot less oil than I tried.  

I had a look at the new directions website. They have the wax I am not sure though if it is Montanov 68 or similar. 

[raveena]

@Pattsi @suswang8 @ Graillotion
        I appreciate your taking the time out for explaining the difference between the two. I guess I will have to experiment with Emulgade. My project is to create a moisturizing cream but without the tack or greasy feel. 
After reading many posts and positive feedback about Montanov 68 I wanted to experiment with it but unfortunately can’t find it anywhere in Australia right now. 
Next, I will try Emulgade with a co-emulsifier as Grailotion mentioned. 

[raveena]

Okay so both the emulsifiers have the same ingredients with the same cas no. I would really appreciate if someone can just give me a little overview of this. As I am not able to source Montanov 68 but can get Emulgade.

[raveena]

raveena said:

What is the best method of neutralizing it? I have Triethanolamine 99.7%. In the formulations, Lubrizol recommends Sodium hydroxide which I am unable to get.  
Usually, we use 30% of Triethanolamine to neutralize it but again I couldn’t source it at that strength. 
Can someone please help with this?

I just found the table it is 1.5 - 1% @ 99%

[raveena]

singhc10 said:

@raveena just leave them in cool dark place, unless it specifically says store in the fridge

Thank you 

[raveena]

Graillotion said:

How about Montanov 202.

Kill all the birds with one stone.   

Thank you for getting back to me quickly. I will have a look now.

[raveena]

@Perry
Hi, Perry can you please provide the link to science-based raw material course. I can’t seem to find any information on it.

[raveena]

ngarayeva001 said:

I am still confused. Do you have a benchmark that is sold or it’s just a concept? What is it supposed to do? There are plenty of products in sprayable format, from oils that turn into emulsion on wet skin and low viscosity emulsions to mists with humectants.

@ngarayeva001- What I am after is a sprayable product for feet that will provide hydration and certain actives I like to include. It is for something that can deliver quick hydration and moisture after having a shower or just before bedtime. 

[raveena]

Hi Mark

Appreciate your time and feedback. I can I guess now go ahead and get a Microneedling session done with HA serum.

[raveena]

Thank you for your reply. The document only explains the dos and don’t of Microneedling.

So Is it safe to apply Hyaluronic acid while using the dermarollers? The depth of the roller can be .5mm to 1.5mm. How far it would penetrate the skin?