Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Help with a novice question please

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  • Help with a novice question please

    Posted by raveena on October 28, 2021 at 5:43 am

    I like Montanov 68MB and so I got a formula from their website for a body lotion. 
    Phase A - Water, glycerin 
    Phase B - Montanov 68MB 2%
                    Monatnov 202 2%
                    lipid loading 8%
    Phase C - Solagum AX .70%
                    Cellulose gum .30%
    D - Preservative and actives

    While I understand the role of all the ingredients. I am a bit confused as to why have they used cellulose gum. Can we use xanthan gum instead? Is it playing a special role here considering the emulsifiers? 
     

    raveena replied 2 years, 7 months ago 3 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • Pharma

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:53 am
    Solagum AX already contains xanthan ;) .
    Cellulose serves other purposes. I guess improved skin feel, film formation, and probably additional stability. Feel free to tweak the formulation.
  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 8:26 am

    When you pull from a mfg website…their goal is to feature the ingredient/s they sell.  So I would consider that a bare bones formula…with not much in the way of elegance, to overshadow their emulsifiers.  As Pharma said…. please…tweak the formula. :)  
    If it were my formula…I would lower the gum level, and increase the support via an anionic emulsifier like GSC.
    And of course….add the chelator.

  • raveena

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 8:33 am

    When you pull from a mfg website…their goal is to feature the ingredient/s they sell.  So I would consider that a bare bones formula…with not much in the way of elegance, to overshadow their emulsifiers.  As Pharma said…. please…tweak the formula. :)  
    If it were my formula…I would lower the gum level, and increase the support via an anionic emulsifier like GSC.
    And of course….add the chelator.

    Do I then take the cellulose gum out completely and lower the Solagum amount and add GSC without removing Montanov 68 and 202. Is that correct? Thanks again for your feedback.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 9:11 am

    No keep the gums….just at a lower rate…or replace them with a polymeric emulsifier, or a combo of polymeric and carbomer.

    The gelling aspect helps with texture and structural integrity.  Just that many are of the opinion…too much gum….doesn’t quite feel awesome.  Just keep in mind…gums can handle tougher situations…like electrolytes, or other difficult situations…that will send the polymerics screaming into the night.  So when you use scary words like ‘actives’…that might mean you will have to stay with the gums.

    I recently just tested through a bunch of gums….and I found a slight stickiness with the solagum AX…something I did not find in the Siligel.  I think Pharma would say that the acacia gum in Solagum….is one of the most structurally enhancing gums of the bunch.  My gum test was done at .3%….pretty much a number I don’t like to exceed.  (Only from a textural perspective.)

    So gum can be switched with polymerics and carbomers…. neither of these would make a proper swap-out with GSC…. So pick a gum or polymeric, and enhance the glucoside based emulsifier with GSC.  It won’t take much….I often only use about .75% of GSC.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 9:21 am

    I will toss in this last piece…. a year ago…I was trying to lean on the emulsifier (like Mont 202) to do the heavy lifting (texturally speaking) in my formulas.  I have concluded that was not the best route.  Now, much of the time…I just take the bulletproof 165….and dress it up in fancy clothes.  You can turn that puppy into ANYTHING, with the right add ins…and it will never complain….Something the Montanov’s did all the time.

  • raveena

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 10:26 am

    I will toss in this last piece…. a year ago…I was trying to lean on the emulsifier (like Mont 202) to do the heavy lifting (texturally speaking) in my formulas.  I have concluded that was not the best route.  Now, much of the time…I just take the bulletproof 165….and dress it up in fancy clothes.  You can turn that puppy into ANYTHING, with the right add ins…and it will never complain….Something the Montanov’s did all the time.

    Thank you so much. It’s very helpful. Always so appreciative of guidance in this forum.

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