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Home Cosmetic Science Talk General Difference between Montanov 68 & Emulgade 68/50

  • raveena

    Member
    October 19, 2020 at 10:33 am

    Okay so both the emulsifiers have the same ingredients with the same cas no. I would really appreciate if someone can just give me a little overview of this. As I am not able to source Montanov 68 but can get Emulgade.

  • suswang8

    Member
    October 19, 2020 at 3:39 pm

    Hi, Raveena.

    I am a total newbie, but I used Montanov 68 (also referred to as Vegetal) in my first batch of product after reading about it on Formula Botanica, which has a great blog post on it.  I did the 30% oil (but with 10% cocoa butter) 8% Montanov 68 recipe.  Obviously, this is a heavy cream formulation and not suitable for everyone, but I wanted to experiment with creating a rich eye cream.  I did not use any gums, and the final product is definitely thick enough for my purposes (i.e., you can turn the container upside down, and there is no product shift unless you were to shake it).  

    In terms of feel, I apply it very sparingly (absolutely key for something this heavy), and …

    1. You can feel an occlusive layer on your skin for a couple of hours after, depending on the wind and temperature — I am not sure what the term for this is in personal care products/cosmetic chemistry, but perhaps someone else can advise?   
    2. This is most likely due to my very high oil/butter content, but if I touch my face for 1-2 hours after application, I can still feel some greasiness and can slide my finger across my face a tiny bit — in other words, it does not feel like it’s fully “absorbed.”  This is another aspect of product feel, and I’m not sure how to describe this specifically in cosmetic chemistry speak/lingo.

    Overall, I liked the experience, but I have limited experience and cannot comment on how much better it would be with, say, 10%-15% oil, 4-5% Montanov, and maybe 0.2%-0.3% Xanthan Gum.    

    I’d be interested in hearing what you are looking to achieve.  For my next adventure, I will be using either a combination of cetyl alcohol and sorbitan stearate, or Montanov 202.  I am looking for something “natural” as well as non-comedogenic.           

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 19, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    suswang8 said:

      For my next adventure, I will be using either a combination of cetyl alcohol and sorbitan stearate, or Montanov 202.  I am looking for something “natural” as well as non-comedogenic.           

    I am working on a cream as well, and followed some Seppic examples of splitting the emulsifier between M 202 and M 68.  Yes 68 makes a VERY rich feeling product.  For my taste…even too rich at 50/50 Ratio.  I ended up with 3 parts 202 with 1 part 68, and that still imparts a richness.
    Generally speaking….M 68 should be pared with a co-emulsifier like Eumulgin SG, aka: Sodium Stearoyl Glutamate.  I have seen others say that a pairing with Glyceryl stearate citrate also works.

  • Pattsi

    Member
    October 20, 2020 at 5:47 am

    Montanov 68 - SEPPIC INCI Name: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Cetearyl Glucoside
    Emulgade 68/50 - BASF INCI Name:Cetearyl Glucoside (and) Cetearyl Alcohol

    MONTANOV™ 68 MB is an O/W emulsifier that can be used for natural/ “green” concepts. It can create a fluid to thick cream with a rich texture. 100% Natural Origin Content, COSMOS & Natrue approved, covered by a Mass Balance RSPO certificate, China listed.

    Emulgade® PL 68/50 is a natural self-emulsifying cream base, that demonstrates good skin compatibility-even with sensitive skin. Based on APG®, it builds biomimetic lamellar creams that exhibit the same lamellar structure as natural skin lipids. This product is ideally used in sun care, face care, body care, baby care, anti-aging and sensitive skin care applications. It is 100% vegetable derived, is supplied in ivory colored pellets, and has a use level of 3-6%.

  • raveena

    Member
    October 20, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    @Pattsi @suswang8 @ Graillotion
            I appreciate your taking the time out for explaining the difference between the two. I guess I will have to experiment with Emulgade. My project is to create a moisturizing cream but without the tack or greasy feel. 
    After reading many posts and positive feedback about Montanov 68 I wanted to experiment with it but unfortunately can’t find it anywhere in Australia right now. 
    Next, I will try Emulgade with a co-emulsifier as Grailotion mentioned. 

  • suswang8

    Member
    October 20, 2020 at 1:52 pm

    I believe New Directions might sell the two main components — Cetearyl Glucoside (and) Cetearyl Alcohol?  Either way, I cannot tell you if “68” will give you what you want in terms of feel unless you perhaps try it yourself with a lot less oil than I tried.  

  • raveena

    Member
    October 20, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    suswang8 said:

    I believe New Directions might sell the two main components — Cetearyl Glucoside (and) Cetearyl Alcohol?  Either way, I cannot tell you if “68” will give you what you want in terms of feel unless you perhaps try it yourself with a lot less oil than I tried.  

    I had a look at the new directions website. They have the wax I am not sure though if it is Montanov 68 or similar.