PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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That’s a stretch - “soap” a single factor of product formulation - and maybe EO - is “hurdle. Suppose a bottle of chlorine bleach is hurdle.
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What’s your packaging?
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For shampoo - use isothiazolinone (as suggested), Na benzoate (2500 ppm) and EDTA (1000 ppm). Anionic surfactants raise the effective pKa for Benzoate.
Vs. isothiazolinone, Phenoxy is not as good but DMDM Hydantoin (2500 ppm) would be a replacement..
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I understand some may not be familiar with antimicrobial efficacy of benzoate/benzoic acid at near neutral pH. Here’s a ref - https://www.sofw.com/en/sofw-journal/articles-en/47-home-care/1703-enhancing-antimicrobial-efficacy-of-sodium-benzoate
and You’ll find it with isothiazolinones in many mass market shampoos.
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In concept, preservation by a combination of factors none of which has a primary antimicrobial effect - e.g. mildly acidic or basic pH, Aw <0.9, low % alcohol, etc. Maybe toss in a pump packaged.
Shampoos? Don’t bet on it. Don’t waste your time
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Your not in US?
Think your preservative system might need a little help for fungi and Gram positive bugs.
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Most frequent and most severe consequences - Gram negative bacteria - esp. Pseudomonas aeruginosa.
And, with cepacia, least likely to be controlled by nonconventional preservation
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still works for me - details from FDA Enforcement report
Nature Lake Foaming Hand Soap Tablets, Sea Mineral. 850 Fifth Street South, Hopkins, MN 5534
Class II - Hand soap has the potential to be contaminated with bacteria.
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Probably
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Aware of nothing for the natural “just stick this in” .
Can construct effective systems that meet “natural” contrivance based on formula and with chelator, glycol (at decent %’s), organic acid, if benzyl alcohol - with benzoic acid, phenoxy (not phenyl), pH control, process and package design. Rarely see evidence of this in most of the clean beauty offerings.
Sal acid has even been used as part but with very narrow, buffered pH range.
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This is just marketing BS - slightly acid to 8 is cynical marketing at best showing profound ignorance of the objective.
Definitely weak vs Gram negative bacteria, again at any pH.
Do not use this stuff - build a system that should work in context of your product.
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But drain the tank af rinsing. Do not want a volume of any water sitting beyond 6-8 hours - growing bugs
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Heat may not be cheap but works best.
You could use your process water - that offers no more risk than niormal making.
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Other bacteria including Burkholderia - and any Gram negative bacteria.
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“Saponified oils” - it’s simply soap. “Hurdle ” here is pretentious.
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Not sure I’d call hurdle - reliance on soap formulation. Were there other factors?
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Have a beer!
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Ever tested product after condumer use? What is your package?
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Here’s the book https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8A98zYzLCDRb2xadjU2MnlkQXM/view?resourcekey=0-VOuv7UH-bSJiN_jaQhb3Q\\
says “optimal activity” below 5, little above 8. That’s what I understand. My comment re benzoic acid with surfactants up to 7 is data based.
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Can you describe your hurdle technology? Is this in context of the soap base you mentioned before.
“In-use” as in the articles below. The major manufacturers put product in hands of consumers to confirm the basic efficacy of their systems . This has been shown generally conventional systems and would be esp important with hurdle. “Compliance” is rudimentary - gov folks know crap all about cosmetic microbiology and as I think you noted before -your guys did not ask for data.
https://academic.oup.com/jambio/article-abstract/128/2/598/6714996
https://journals.asm.org/doi/abs/10.1128/aem.53.8.1827-1832.1987
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Gram + and fungi generally ~5 or less. Dave Steinberg liked it up to 7 - for me 7 and broader efficacy (some v. Gram neg) with benzoic acid in surfactants.
What is ref 16?
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Your soap solutions? Do you have in-use data?
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Yup - a bad one. Reminds of <b style=”background-color: var(-bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(-bb-body-text-color);”>Pseudomonas-induced corneal ulcers associated with contaminated eye mascaras. LA Wilson, DG Ahearn - American journal of ophthalmology, 1977.
also aeruginosa -
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thanks - was referring to the micro quality. does little good to sanitize if water reinculates bacteria
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30 minutes and rinsed. What is quality of your rinse water.