PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Growth or not - preservatives are specialty chemicals none of the big chemical companies saw as much more than a distraction and would shed when they went through various downturns. In the last 2 years, Lanxess and Arxada consolidated the lines across categories.
With MoCRA, we’ll see if the eye of newt/toes of frog stuff can afford to generate their own data to “substantiate safety” - or will we see them disappear like grapefruit seed extract.
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pity the natural/organic /”clean” options do not replace the efficacy of the conventional safe combinations on priority chemical lists.
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The Drabre study is irrelevant “science” - even if repeated with even a little rigor.. There are recognized toxicologic methodologies and those are what SCCS and FDA consider.
Why suppliers do not repeat Darbre? Parabens are commodity specialty chemicals of little significance to their suppliers bottom lines. Primary here is Clariant - a ~10 billion chemical company whose motto is “Greater chemistry for people and the environment” - has done nothing.
And “science” is not the answer. Safety-in-use of formaldehyde releasers is not in technical question. As J&J microbioligists and toxicologists correctly argued internally before giving up for their baby shampoo formulation - there’s more formaldehyde in a pear than in use of the product.
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any idea re cationic, anionic, nonionic?
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This discussion does address the questions of education for cosmetic science and technology. Foods have departments at universities devoted to their science and technology and pharma has close regulatory, pharmacopoeial and professional organizational oversight and direction.
Cosmetic science and technology is arcane, often counter-intuitive with few resources to train or support. Experts are few and typically isolated. My expertise is based on 40 years in the industry and I’m one of the very few who has published in my narrow area. I’ve run into some other impressive experts here that I would not know at all but for this forum. Graillotion is one.
Graillotion - how did you gain your expertise?.
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the formula you need is: concentration1 X volume1 = concentration2 X volume2
Concentration1 - is the % in the raw material DMDM hydantoin 55%
Concentration2 - the target concentration in your product - 1500 ppm - 0.15% (think 2000 ppm would be better)
Volume1 - is the amount of raw material 55% DMDM hydantoin to be added to your product
Volume2 - is the total volume of your product
For 100 ml of product - you’d add ~0.27 ml.
Please tell us the biosurfactant. That “preservative” capacity is highly doubtful - more likely (marketing) BS.
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Don;t know your claims but it appears you’re selling a soap - not a cosmetic. Ingredient labeling is not necessary.
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/frequently-asked-questions-soap
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“liquid germall” - as in Germall Plus?
see this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPjoOQDyQMo
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I’d not get too carried away with pKa - your formula may impact. Suggest 2500-3000 Na benzoate at favorable pH. Do not think sorbate/DHA buys anything more and brings in more question of stability.
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Why? A pH limitation?
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Citric lactic - suppose can try either. I’m just a preservative guy.
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Think that would be better
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Can you lower the pH enough to accomodate an organic acid?
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That combination is not esp. good vs. fungi - or much else beyond phenoxy by itself.
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I’ve heard the same for ZPT - data did not support. What are the data for piroctone?
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Familiar with Piroctone olamine as a dandruff active - it’s another hydroxamate chelator. Not much experience as preservative - efficacy, stability, formula interactions, water quality- cations
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Pools as simple water solution without the cosmetic poo and goo and biguanides are substantive - cosmetic packaging offers much more surface area to a small volume of product.
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Graillotion is as always quite correct.
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Right, and we can trace the increased recalls with that transition.
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Thanks! I spent Match in Hawaii - we could have talked.
In addition of course to Perry, I think pharma and chemical matt are also excellent resources.
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“Hands on”? I thought the course was online.
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The ecocert BS has no limits
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Right - but still think “Jaws” theme would have been more catchy
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for example - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-2494.1988.tb00582.x
and
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf60232a072
Nothing is perfect - suggest use what works well in as many preservative applications as possible
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Thanks. Schwartz is an old pal from P&G so I trust the report.