PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Quick look sees the same for the leaping bunny BS - not the cost of review but a piece of the action - A “one-time licensing fee, based on the company’s gross annual sales”
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EWG took (still takes?) a piece of the action.
Imagine most of the cutsie badges on cosmetics are similar ripoff variety.
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Of course not.
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Please do not join these ignorant clowns. “Just add water” is an irresponsible invitation to contamination, and Geogard ECT at any pH is a crap stand alone preservative system as are benzoate and benzoic/sorbate. 6 month use-by is a cynical cop out - the consumer has no idea when the product was made and we know they do not read or comply with ex/PAO dates.
Tap water usually include pseudomonads - esp. P. aeruginosa, one of the most common causes of cosmetic contamination recalls. ECT is benzyl alcohol and salicylate - might be ok vs fungi and Gram positive but fairly useless vs. Gram negatives - pseudomonads. Might be - because ad lib addition is whatever the consumer adds to whatever concentration.
Here’s a classic example of “just add water” in a medical context that proved fatal.
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By sales or volume - zippo.
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Functional, both could work but prefer Germall + in rinse-off products.
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Food standards are not acceptable for cosmetics.
Functionally, excessive microbial count in a raw material can put finished product over the quantitative limit for cosmetics - establishing an adulterated product. Even if processing (e.g. heat in making the cosmetic) eliminates the count, most would consider the raw material adulterated and therefore the product adulterated whatever the finished microbial content.
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Think very few are familiar with the stuff.
There is another very important point with the odd preservative - safety. As safety is your responsibility - how do you know it is safe in use ?
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It is not an effective preservative.
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There are many folks with dirt on their hands in this regard. To the big guys, add the retailers - Sephora, Target, Walmart et al. - and their “priority” lists that drive moronic preservative systems. Our industry is based on advertising/marketing promises often of little substance. Meaningless virtue signaling and fear mongering peripherals can be just as effective.
Consider (in my experience) the assistant brand manager at a major marketer. Up or out in ~ 6 months from hire, little knowledge of the industry, stuck with technology development has to offer and constrained by legal, safety. It selects for folks with drive, imagination and a pragmatism (cynicism) of whatever works - legal and safety can stop me if there’s a problem if they find out.
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Thanks - and I’m ashamed to confirm the article’s report of P&G’s participation with these scummy jerks. Called my buddies in development with a “WTF!” - but with full knowledge that this was brand (advertising). More to the point of advertising is amoral.
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Good point Ron. For single use sachets - saw no need for stability testing of preservative capacity - until consumer studies found these routinely used by families for extended time in China and 3rd world.
Think conditioners are much more difficult to rehydrate/resolubilize than shampoo. To your question - I’ve no experience but might approach it with a package that is physically unstable once opened and rehydrated in 1st use. Think the package supported “use as intended” approach.
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and pH 7 does not define pure water. Dissolved CO2 as carbonate ion lowers pH. There many parameters that address “purity”. pH is not necessarily one of them
https://sciencing.com/ph-distilled-water-4623914.html
sciencing.com
What Is the pH of Distilled Water?
The pH of distilled water immediately after distillation is 7, but within two hours after distillation, it has absorbed carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and become acidic with a pH of 5.8.
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They expect consumers to clean up their adulterated product?
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A cosmetic grade would be gamma treated - https://www.makingcosmetics.us/certificate-of-analysis/coa-tapioca-starch.pdf
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Edit? Why would I want to correct my typos, angry retorts, pompous BS, ad hominem and irrelevant comments? I gotta be me!
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Food standards are associated with expectations of (often) heat treatment of finished food product, brief shelf life and established consumer “QC” practices (toss old, smelly, ugly, moldy, etc.). Cosmetics are rarely so treated in production, have effective shelf life of years and contamination is often not obvious.
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Good points!
But I have hope for Arxada. The preservation marketing fantasies were the product of Lonza. Arxada’s had it the biz for 2 or 3 years and has been knee deep in acquisition details for the global combination of businesses. The CTO is a pal and I know he’s hired some excellent industry folks to review the business and anticipate technology.
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re screen shot - it’s pretty lame validation - no idea what they were testing (tap water diluted? to what %, etc.) and suppose it fails at 6 months? In-use testing would be the critical test - not their lab mock up.
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Right - a shampoo concentrate the hosp. salon diluted with tap water.
Shampoos are so difficult prob worst case for preservation due to water exposure in use. Isothiazolinone is not that stable dry - maybe formaldehyde releasers with EDTA but dynamics of addition and mixing so whatever is used gets in the right place.
If there’s a good answer it’s prob in packaging. Can you market as a single use to which tap water is added to a volume in a sachet?
btw - I sure respect your concern for consumers and their safety.
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Thanks ! I’m old and slow but get it.
Good grief! Big successful folks like AMT offer special magic stuff only for home crafters with their big volumes. They really believe that crap?? Maybe AMT can offer promotional tin foil hats. ????
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OK - AMT, but am confused. Homecrafters think big guys are conspiring to force AMT’s and other goofy stuff on them? Who conquered whom?
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Don’t know how to address other than sales - units or $. Units are harder but Statistica estimates for example shampoo units ~380 million annually
The industry is ~$300 billion globally. I doubt home crafters even register. In 30 years with P&G and representing P&G at CTFA/PCPC, can remember not even one comment of home crafter “competition.”
What is AMT?
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No - and please heed the comment of Microformulation.
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In this (and most) context - virtue signaling and marketing hype somewhere between (ignorant and cynical). The best excuse for poor preservation for the suckers who buy it.
