Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General Off Topic Has anyone written an expose' on the cosmetic 'terror' organizations haunting…

  • Has anyone written an expose' on the cosmetic 'terror' organizations haunting…

    Posted by Graillotion on July 8, 2023 at 5:16 pm

    ….the industry?

    There seem to be several organizations, which for large sums of bribery, will ‘certify’ your ingredient as ‘good’. I have not seen this kind of ‘terror’ implemented on a society since Al Gore created the carbon exchange, where he was going to take a cut of every mfg process in the world, without giving anything back!

    I am curious if there is a good article/s on these vermin? Something that might show their educational background and massive 6 figure incomes? (Don’t get me wrong…I always appreciate a well executed CON!)

    If you are uncomfortable posting in open forum…you can send them to me direct … in my mailbox.

    Aloha.

    • This discussion was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
    • This discussion was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
    Trytryagain replied 9 months, 2 weeks ago 6 Members · 19 Replies
  • 19 Replies
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    July 9, 2023 at 5:21 am

    EWG took (still takes?) a piece of the action.

    Imagine most of the cutsie badges on cosmetics are similar ripoff variety.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      July 9, 2023 at 2:53 pm

      Oh….they take a CUT…that is the whole concept…take a cut, pay yourself way WAY north of a reasonable wage… And laugh all the way to the bank.

      Many of the clever con artists…don’t have the background to determine the difference between milk and water. Just have the ability to determine if your ‘donation’ was of appropriate size. πŸ˜‰

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    July 9, 2023 at 6:34 am

    Quick look sees the same for the leaping bunny BS - not the cost of review but a piece of the action - A “one-time licensing fee, based on the company’s gross annual sales”

  • Microformulation

    Member
    July 9, 2023 at 8:19 am

    The majority of certifications available in the cosmetics industry have
    limited utility for start-ups and growing lines. With the exception of
    the USDA NOP Organic certification, which holds value in specific
    markets, the benefits of these certifications are unclear. Notably,
    certifications like NSF or Ecocert are unfamiliar to mainstream clients,
    thus providing no competitive advantage.

    When clients embark on creating “natural” cosmetics, they often lack a
    clear direction. Consequently, the product design phase becomes
    challenging, resembling herding cats. Clients may resort to unreliable
    online sources to scrutinize unfamiliar raw materials. Introducing a
    certification standard, even with its potential imperfections, can
    streamline the product design phase.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      July 9, 2023 at 2:50 pm

      Sounds like you need to write ‘the article’. πŸ˜‰

      “Herding cats’…. that is how I feel…working on the beginner forum. For everyone you get where you want them…there are two more that appear, running in opposite directions.

      😈😼

      • Microformulation

        Member
        July 10, 2023 at 1:26 pm

        I primarily direct my educational efforts toward my two technicians. Rather than providing them with all the answers, I believe in fostering their knowledge through on-the-job learning. Although they may occasionally find it challenging, I have a specific approach when they come to me with a problem that can be easily researched: “What have you found through your research so far?” Whenever one of them is able to teach me something new, I secretly derive a sense of satisfaction.

        Regrettably, achieving a similar dynamic in DIY groups is often challenging due to the reluctance of many individuals to accept mistakes or guidance.

    • Herbnerd

      Member
      July 9, 2023 at 3:32 pm

      “When clients embark on creating β€œnatural” cosmetics, they often lack a
      clear direction. Consequently, the product design phase becomes
      challenging, resembling herding cats. Clients may resort to unreliable
      online sources to scrutinize unfamiliar raw materials.”

      Now substitute clients for Marketing and you have totally describes the marketing team at the company where I work! I mean, they cannot decide on timings, namings of projects and generally cause all round confusion - let alone give an ordered brief.

      • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Herbnerd.
      • Graillotion

        Member
        July 9, 2023 at 3:47 pm

        Well if the cool new ‘claim’ ingredients didn’t keep changing on a quarterly basis… It would be a little easier for the marketing types….to FOCUS. πŸ˜‰

        Good thing cosmetics isn’t dictated by ‘influencer’s. πŸ˜‚

      • Microformulation

        Member
        July 10, 2023 at 10:55 am

        I can understand where you’re coming from. While working as a consultant, I haven’t had to interact with marketing teams as frequently, and we typically have more influence and involvement in decision-making. However, during my time collaborating with a contract manufacturer, I found that the marketers in the front office often posed more of a hindrance than assistance. Instead of supporting the technical department, they seemed focused on showcasing their own abilities. During status conferences, they would arrive armed with extensive notes from industry watchdogs, such as the EWG, intending to “challenge” the technical team.

        Of course, there were some exceptional marketers I encountered along the way. I remember one individual who displayed genuine interest in our work and respectfully requested to shadow us in the lab while asking insightful questions. It was clear that she possessed a deep understanding of the field. In due course, she advanced her career and became a product manager at a well-known mid-sized cosmetic company.

      • Perry44

        Administrator
        July 10, 2023 at 4:40 pm

        To be fair, cosmetic marketers are in a difficult position. They are trying to sell a product that everyone wants but all companies can produce products that work just as well as everyone else’s. You really can’t differentiate your product based on performance because the technology has barely improved in the last 30 - 40 years AND any improvements that have been made are not noticed by consumers.

        This means that your product’s success or failure depends almost entirely on your marketing story. And there are only so many compelling marketing stories. You are competing with every other marketing storyteller out there. It’s like trying to predict the next video that will go viral. No one knows why one product is successful and another isn’t.

  • Trytryagain

    Member
    July 9, 2023 at 7:32 pm

    I wish someone would. The problem would be getting the word out, all the way down the information pipeline to where it matters most I think, the consumer. I have started to wonder, over the last couple of years, if some of the negative influence and vilifying of entire ingredient groups is coming from (in addition to EWG) Cosmos and Ecocert. You know the newest free from claim I saw this weekend? NO GLYCOLS. It never ends. I am customer facing, I sell in person every weekend. Every weekend it never fails, I have multiple customers asking is this product “clean”, or natural, or chemical free, or no synthetic fragrance, or natural only etc. They bring this up unprovoked, it has been ingrained into the psyche of the consumer. It’s depressing. I love my customers, but I don’t want to formulate with only twigs and berries.

    Back to Cosmos and Ecocert, say they ban an ingredient, then a retailer in the US thinks it will help them differentiate themselves follow Ecocert and bans said ingredient, then markets to consumers and brands “we are banning said ingredient”. Then brands must accommodate the retailer if they want to be on the shelf, so brand X bans the ingredient, and markets to consumers “we are banning said ingredient”. Now consumer consumed the marketing from retailer level and brand level, and thinks they have to look for skin care that’s free from said ingredient.

    It is a dilemma, and I don’t know the answer, but getting the word out to consumers would be a big part of solving it. Having a source to refer to that explains the motivation behind some of these ingredient terrorist organizations would be helpful. But what a massive undertaking.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      July 9, 2023 at 8:41 pm

      Yes…in the short few years I have been in cosmetics…is seems to rapidly becoming something ‘Free From Intellect’, on the consumer end. I somewhat blame the ‘Big Boys’…for joining the band wagon…instead of standing their ground…and trying to educate. Placating the ignorant is never a ‘WIN’ for anyone….not even for the ignorant! πŸ™

      Sad to see a $300 billion dollar industry slide into …. _________ !

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      July 10, 2023 at 4:28 am

      There are many folks with dirt on their hands in this regard. To the big guys, add the retailers - Sephora, Target, Walmart et al. - and their “priority” lists that drive moronic preservative systems. Our industry is based on advertising/marketing promises often of little substance. Meaningless virtue signaling and fear mongering peripherals can be just as effective.

      Consider (in my experience) the assistant brand manager at a major marketer. Up or out in ~ 6 months from hire, little knowledge of the industry, stuck with technology development has to offer and constrained by legal, safety. It selects for folks with drive, imagination and a pragmatism (cynicism) of whatever works - legal and safety can stop me if there’s a problem if they find out.

      • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
    • Graillotion

      Member
      July 11, 2023 at 12:37 am

      I’m thinking of a new brand concept…. ‘FREE OF NOTHING” Skincare for intellectuals? πŸ˜‚

      Think it will float?

      • Trytryagain

        Member
        July 13, 2023 at 10:48 am

        love it πŸ˜‚

  • Trytryagain

    Member
    July 9, 2023 at 7:45 pm

    I doubt I am aware of any resource that you have not already discovered, but Ecowell did get this conversation going here:

    https://www.theecowell.com/blog/a-case-against-the-ewg

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      July 10, 2023 at 3:54 am

      Thanks - and I’m ashamed to confirm the article’s report of P&G’s participation with these scummy jerks. Called my buddies in development with a “WTF!” - but with full knowledge that this was brand (advertising). More to the point of advertising is amoral.

  • Perry44

    Administrator
    July 10, 2023 at 4:46 pm

    One thing that’s not mentioned is that there really isn’t any money in doing an expose like this.

    Fearmongering is so prevalent because it is effective. Consumers are just more compelled by scary stories than they are by reassuring stories. Which story do you think the average consumer would read?

    NGOs are lying to you, cosmetics really are safe

    or

    The cosmetics you’re using are filled with carcinogens & the government is doing nothing about it

    Fear is motivating. Truth is not. Especially when the truth is mundane.

    And we really can’t expect big companies to try to educate consumers. They are motivated to sell products! Selling products to an uneducated consumer base is just a much easier task.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      July 10, 2023 at 5:41 pm

      100% AGREED! Hence I have not watched the news in 6 years. (Or is that because I don’t have TV anymore? πŸ˜† )

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