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‘Just Add Water’ Products + Preservation
Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time poster.
I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on ‘just add water’ style products. It seems that the vast majority of these products use Geogard Ultra which according to their literature is effective again gram + and gram - bacteria, as well as yeast. They also say to use the product within 6 months of adding water. Some specify that the water should be boiled first.
This is something I would love to pursue however I am concerned that even with preservative efficacy testing, without knowing the quality of the water going in that there is no way to know whether the preservative is doing it’s job. Is ‘over’ preserving with a high % of Geogard Ultra + having a low pH formula + specifying that is must be used within 6 months enough?
Here are some example INCIs - not wanting to ‘call out’ any brands here so I won’t mention the names, but the brands are quite big and I’d be surprised if they didn’t so their due diligence, so really, I’m wondering what makes them so sure that this works! -
Powder-to-gel Body Wash - Oryza Sativa (Rice) Brand, Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate, Xanthan Gum, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Meal, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate, Sodium Benzoate, Inulin, Citric Acid, Fragrance/Parfum , Kaolin, Mandelic Acid, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Juice, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Maltodextrin, Sodium Citrate.
Powder-to-gel Shampoo - Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate, sodium cocoyl isethionate, sodium coco-sulfate, gluconolactone, betaine, sodium methyl cocoyl taurate, maltodextrin, xanthan gum, , sodium benzoate, Fragrance, sodium isethionate, calcium gluconate, Moringa oleifera seed oil, Citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel powder, mica.
Powder-to-cream Conditioner - Behentrimonium methosulfate, brassica alcohol, gluconolactone, panthenol, sodium benzoate, maltodextrin, Orbignya oleifera (babassu) seed oil, Camellia japonica (tsubaki) seed oil, calcium gluconate.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts! I’m very interested to hear your thoughts!
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19 Replies
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Please do not join these ignorant clowns. “Just add water” is an irresponsible invitation to contamination, and Geogard ECT at any pH is a crap stand alone preservative system as are benzoate and benzoic/sorbate. 6 month use-by is a cynical cop out - the consumer has no idea when the product was made and we know they do not read or comply with ex/PAO dates.
Tap water usually include pseudomonads - esp. P. aeruginosa, one of the most common causes of cosmetic contamination recalls. ECT is benzyl alcohol and salicylate - might be ok vs fungi and Gram positive but fairly useless vs. Gram negatives - pseudomonads. Might be - because ad lib addition is whatever the consumer adds to whatever concentration.
Here’s a classic example of “just add water” in a medical context that proved fatal.
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Thanks Phil - P. aeruginosa was what I was concerned about as I have seen the recent cases with the eye drops (although noted they were unpreserved). The Geogard product info *says* that it is effective against it but obviously they are selling their product.
My other thought was that consumers will not necessarily use it within 6 months just because it says to.
Is it correct that in the article you’ve linked below this was a finished shampoo that was then diluted further? The preservative obviously only intended to preserve the original product?
Do you think there is any preservative on the market that would be suitable for the purpose of powder-to-gel products?
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Right - a shampoo concentrate the hosp. salon diluted with tap water.
Shampoos are so difficult prob worst case for preservation due to water exposure in use. Isothiazolinone is not that stable dry - maybe formaldehyde releasers with EDTA but dynamics of addition and mixing so whatever is used gets in the right place.
If there’s a good answer it’s prob in packaging. Can you market as a single use to which tap water is added to a volume in a sachet?
btw - I sure respect your concern for consumers and their safety.
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Thank you!
Yes currently we sell a powder format that you dispense each time you use it. People seem to find this difficult to use (personally I find it easy and I have thick hair, but I guess people are used to liquid products… or maybe it’s just a matter of time and ‘education’ like with shampoo bars).
I’m thinking that one of the products above they’re relying on boiling the water to kill gram - bacteria which is why they specify to use just boiled water (although just says lukewarm which is a bit scary considering that’s ideal temp for pseudomonas aeruginosa). I’d be really interested to know how specifically they conducted their preservative testing!
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They expect consumers to clean up their adulterated product?
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Hi @philgeis,
I noticed you mentioned the shampoo, but I am curious about the conditioner. What preservative system would be sufficient for a hot pour or powder water-activated conditioner such as the product listed above? I think the single-use packaging verbiage is great, but what if a consumer decided to keep the remaining hydrated conditioner despite the label stating “single-use, discard after use.” Thanks for your insight.
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Good point Ron. For single use sachets - saw no need for stability testing of preservative capacity - until consumer studies found these routinely used by families for extended time in China and 3rd world.
Think conditioners are much more difficult to rehydrate/resolubilize than shampoo. To your question - I’ve no experience but might approach it with a package that is physically unstable once opened and rehydrated in 1st use. Think the package supported “use as intended” approach.
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Great insight! Thank you.
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re screen shot - it’s pretty lame validation - no idea what they were testing (tap water diluted? to what %, etc.) and suppose it fails at 6 months? In-use testing would be the critical test - not their lab mock up.
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I have spent the last several months studying the cosmetic preservation industry, as I am writing a blurb on it for a beginner group. One thing is clear… Geogard has spent their efforts on hiring creative writers! Other than AMT (parent company of Luecidal products), there is no greater liberties and fantasy written into the marketing, than with this company. Clearly the chemist that work for this company are let no where near the marketing department, nor allowed to proof read the garbage descriptions they produce.
If you take a look at a Euxyl/Ashland products with similar components, you will find much less fantasy, and pH recommendations much closer to reality (though still the limits are higher than I would go).
I am sure Arxada is shooting for some Emmy or Oscar with their creative writing program, but I don’t feel this achievement merits the use of their products.
Aloha.
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This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by Graillotion.
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This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by Graillotion.
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Good points!
But I have hope for Arxada. The preservation marketing fantasies were the product of Lonza. Arxada’s had it the biz for 2 or 3 years and has been knee deep in acquisition details for the global combination of businesses. The CTO is a pal and I know he’s hired some excellent industry folks to review the business and anticipate technology.
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Good to hear! Hope they turn the corner soon!
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That’s very good to know! And when you publish your guide please post it in this forum - would love to read it.
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This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by
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By the way - is there any way to edit your post? I’d like to remove the INCIs now as I don’t want to be seen as disparaging any businesses. I can’t seem to edit any of my comments.
*actually I can edit this comment, as the edit button is showing. But it’s not showing on any previous comments or the main post. Hmm!
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This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by cosmeticchick.
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You can only edit for 5 minutes. After that … the edit option disappears.
You can message Perry, and in the past he has removed things I wanted removed.
Aloha.
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Thank you! I might do that! Probably shouldn’t have put the INCIs there - oops!
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Edit? Why would I want to correct my typos, angry retorts, pompous BS, ad hominem and irrelevant comments? I gotta be me!
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🤣🤣
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I think the INCIs are fine. You didn’t name the brand & it helped shape the discussion
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This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by
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