PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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M5 - excellent!!!
86 the sorbate; hold pH and benzoate; consider phenylethyl (note rose odor), diols (pentylene , octane); a little ethanol 4% can help, need a chelator (EDTA, GLDA , worry at stability for gluconolactone), no unknown mixtures (Leucidal, EO’s and extracts).
Product - what surfactants (some effectively increase benzoate pKa); tub/sachet fill or online conversion? any heat in process? package open to consumer in use or single sheet pull out?
Good luck - appreciate your prefessionalism.
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see: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-21#subpart-D
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Think that is Specially Denatured (SD) alcohol SD-40B. Hopw is it labeled?
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Yes -mechanical penetration for physical status of solid deodorant
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Change preservative system.
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prob need a preservative
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Do prob need better preservation. Check similar products on the shelf.
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Checked for micro contamination?
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You are over preserved. EDTA at 0.1% of acid with either phenoxy 5000 ppm/EHG or isothiazolinone/benzoate 2500 ppm.
No Benzalkonium chloride.
I don’t know which isothiazolinone commerical product you’re using BUT do not exceed 7.5 ppm active of total MIT/CMIT
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You might offer that you want products tested to industry standards. Do not doubt for a moment that any legal action regarding product quality will observe “inappropriate” methods whether of technical signficance or not.
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I’m good at confusing!
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No - it is a QC method that assures the stick is sufficiently “hard” as judged by depth of penetration using a probe.
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https://access.personalcarecouncil.org/Shop/Publications/Product-Details?productid={77D37D7B-711E-ED11-B83E-0022482235A6}
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Great Picture!
Yup - the CTFA (PCPC) cosmetic industry methods. https://blog.microbiologics.com/preservative-testing-choice-of-challenge-isolates/
blog.microbiologics.com
Preservative Testing - Choice of Challenge Isolates - Microbiologics Blog
“What you see is that the most outstanding feature of life’s history is a constant domination by bacteria.” – Stephen J. Gould. Preservation capacity is a central element of consumer product quality. Though necessary to any microbiological risk assessment, adequate … Continue reading
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The proof is in the consumers hands. Show me your in-use data - it is your claim and responsibility. And please not just USP 51 of the juice.
Please understand, USP 51 is borrowed from pharma and has no validition for cosmetics - passing does not mean it’s effective in plants and more importantly in the hands of consumers - the actual purpose of preservation. Inexperienced folks take it as gospel - and such folks typically consider testing the juice qualifies the wipe product. The big variable is the substrate that operates as a chromatographic medium. Esp. for tub fill, the preservative will be in the top wipes and not the others.
Proper testing uses the finshed wipes - top and bottom of tub fill.
Benzoic acid is not effective against pseudomonads at any pH. Are you aware of the pH dynmaic for orgnaic acids? That it passes as juice - even with complete kill means little to the world of pseudomonads. The ATCC isolate used in USP 51 is a lab creature - isolated ~60 years ago from a lesion and it carries no resistant plasmids.
Using that crap preservaitve systemn for a baby wipe is a terrible idea.
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Bull - must be aware of the pH dynamics of benzoate and the development of wipe preservative systems. A known weak system on its face - just benzoate - passing equally weak USP 51, prob with juice, as an excuse to market - is a profoundly flawed approach to wipes preservation.
Pity your consumers.
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Quite famliar with the components - an organic acid and a weak chelator stabilized with gluconic acid. You don’t even know the pH and your offering that silly combination that, under the best conditions, has nothing for Gram negative bacteria.
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No!
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I understand. What is pH? “Clean” in context of baby is a risky proposition. what is your challenge test?
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Need to control pH both as made and instability for benzoic - your only protection vs. fungi and staph.
Can you use benzyl alcohol?
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The concentrate is a manufacturing intermediate/premix to be diluted before packaging for retail?
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This is for personal use?
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Dilution to 80%??? This is a major problem - most tap water includes Pseudomonas aeruginosa AND in context of biofilm. Are you challenge testing with diluted product? At minimum you need to get in-use micro data as you’ve effectively engaged consumers and their water in your manufacturing.
Be aware - a similar approach (point of use dilution - shampoo) was associated with serious outbreak of infection that led to one death at a cancer hospital. https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/158/3/655/2190564
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Ask who is 3rd party lab so you can talk directly. You want to confirm method, spec. and OOS protocol. Who will release? If not you - better be real confident if you delegate.
Please make sure to touch all the issues E.g. confirm micro spec - in QC micro, food guys are often more interested in the what and not the how many - for cosmetics its both and food whats are not the same as cosmetic whats.
How well in control is their water system?
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If you want to talk about the OOS - what were counts and ID?