[Pharma]

No, because there is nothing in your brew which would be effective for hair straightening… unless you mistake the misnomer glycosylic acid for thioglycolic acid… then it would be yes.

To be honest (no hard feelings, K?), I don’t have the impression that there is any information space of yours to start from (again, no offense).

Use the search bar at the top right of this forum, you’ll find good threads/posts regarding hair straighteners and how they work including (if memory serves me right) book recommendations, too.

[Pharma]

What is glycosylic acid?

What do you expect it to do?

[Pharma]

I don’t see any reason why you should buffer MSM, it’s a very stable compound.

Also, you can’t really buffer a 10% solution… you could add a buffer but, scientifically speaking, this is likely not a buffered solution with regard to those 10%…

Anyway, just dump your MSM into whichever product you like. It is a solute and therefore may affect physical stability and viscosity by changing for example the apparent HLB/HLD values of the emulsifiers and/or lead to salting out/in effects.

[Pharma]

What? I expected an ionic interaction but forming a Schiff base spontaneously with their brew (but not any other saccharides)? Are they nuts? What about science?

[Pharma]

Comedic and cosmetic… sounds like the same thing to my Swiss German ears . Besides, isn’t it better to be a bad comedic genius than a good comedogenic genius, right?
Honestly though, my answer was meant to be serious, like 100% serious.
If you had to giggle (which is absolutely okay but not mandatory), then it’s due to what’s written between the lines (or you had enough to drink… which means, I’m now going to eat all the Kirsch filled chocolate myself :blush: ).

[Pharma]

Graillotion said:

…
What about from a scientific approach?  Is it logical to assume this is a superior humectant?  
…

The chemical composition is not really known and/or depends on the manufacturing processe (which isn’t publicly known). I had a hard time figuring out what it actually is and found some indications that it’s not actually ‘isomerised’ in the proper sense but ‘modified’ (caramellised?) and/or otherwise polymerised/rearranged glucose and/or other glucosides. According to the CIR report, which seems to be the most comprehensive publication I could find, there are actually several products on the market composed of low molecular weight mono-/disaccharides and derivatives thereof such as uronic acids, aminoglucosides, and/or acetylated aminoglucosides, corresponding medium molecular weight oligosaccharides, or respective high molecular weight polysaccharides.

The presence of aminoglucosides would result in this ‘immediately sticks to skin’ effect (think of Jaguar and other cationic conditioning agents). However, the CIR report mentions that the product sticks to skin by the inverse mechanism (uronic acids binding to lysine side chains)… which, to me, doesn’t sound convincing given that many polymers are anionic and don’t really stick well to skin.

Bottom line is: There is not one saccharide isomerate but several and these are likely to have more or less different behaviours and skin feel.
Are they good humectants? I’d say they are as good (or bad) as similar products (meaning, there are better ones out there and for less $$, too).

[Pharma]

What kind of question is this exactly?

If it’s a marketing Q: Yes, sure, it will always work.

If it’s a chemical Q: Depends on the extract and its composition. Generally, plant extracts are more likely to be stable at lower pH. However, there are also constituents which are most stable at +/- neutral pH and others which are always unstable (such as chamazulene).

If it’s a spiritual/esoteric Q: Theoretically yes, ‘activity’ in this field usually doesn’t care about natural laws of physics and chemistry etc.

And finally a pharmacological Q: Most likely, that extract of yours is so highly diluted already that, once incorporated into any type of formulation, it simply never works.

[Pharma]

Paprik said:

I have never understood this.  So Stearic acid needs some base to be able to be emulsifier (saponification I reckon). But wouldn’t it need higher pH to be able to maintain its properties? Meaning, if you would take the pH back down, it should “separate”, shouldn’t it? 
Could you please explain it to me good man?

LoL! Spot on!

What can happen is: Convert some stearic acid into sodium stearate aka soap which allows you to emulsify your product quite easily. Drop pH and convert most soap back to stearic acid. Stearic acid (and other stuff) settles and thereby hardens the oil phase. Voilà, you have created something like an unstable stable non-emulsion-but-suspension emulsion . The remaining small amount of negatively charged soap on the interphase might be just enough to keep the oil droplets (I should rather say ‘fat’ cause they’re solid) electrostatically rejecting each other.

It’s pretty much how traditional cold cream has been made (though that one was w/o).

[Pharma]

Read for yourself, for example HERE. How bad is it? How bad is anything humans do? How comes that sperm quality has dropped by 50-60 % during the last 60 years? The answer is either ‘Let’s all replace phthalates with something else… maybe another toxic chemical, shall we?’ or ‘You’ll live, you’ll be fine! Let the next generation worry about that.’

Why don’t you use something less problematic such as acetyl tributyl citrate?

BTW Are glycerol carbonate and other carbonates already used as plasticisers for nail polish (the patents/publications look promising)?

[Pharma]

@Syl That’s interesting, thanks for sharing!
 Totally different approach, though 🙂 (*thinks of that capsule machine sitting unused in the lab at the pharmacy*).

[Pharma]

@Paprik I stumbled upon this too. Never tried it.

A few years back I couldn’t find much useful but, as Wikipedia tells me (read it, it’s really a helpful summary!), there is new evidence (some cool fun facts included, if you’re a nerd, that is) and it also states that minoxidil sulfate (the ester, not the salt) is one of the (or the) active metabolite (weird), is highly unstable in water and ethanol (pity), is more lipophilic (weird) and still better soluble, and less likely to penetrate skin (pity). So, what you apply is most likely degraded minoxidil sulfate or just minoxidil sulfate (the salt, not the ester) and that one is probably more diluted because half the weight of it is sulfate. And I fear that aqueous solutions of minoxidil sulfate salt are as unstable as minoxidil lactate.

[Pharma]

I’m still stuck with the idea of a stable, non-pH adjusted alcohol and propylene glycol free minoxidil solution… Using lactic acid to dissolve minoxidil in water unfortunately turns yellow quite fast. My last attempt was getting closer but still required some alcohol and diverse glycols (which still make my hair look greasy though not as bad as the standard formulation). Guess I could live with alcohol but customers more frequently demand something without it and when I’m already at puzzle solving, why not take the most challenging hike, right?

[Pharma]

You’ll easily find solvent alternatives online, such as THIS.

Ethyl acetate isn’t a bad guy (certainly better than other solvents) but it’s not green chemistry or really that renewable aka bio-based. As an alternative, ethyl lactate comes to mind.

BTW I’m not too familiar with making nail polish but the few things I know (basically THIS)… the solvent part is probably the least concern (????). If you want to replace acetone, methyl acetate might work though it’s not that ‘bio’… if ethyl lactate or propylene carbonate would do the trick, I don’t know (slower evaporation).

Replacing the other ingredients… ugh… maybe not using nail polish or oldschool real shellac?

[Pharma]

tinas said:

I have formulated with Emulsifying wax NF - it is polysorbate 60 in it, like to find a more natural substitute. I do have lots of cetearyl alcohol in stock. Could I use Sodium Cetearyl Sulfate toghether with cetearyl alcohol? Where can I buy this as a single ingredients?  

More natural… okay… you mean like close to naturally occuring molecules but possibly still from petrochemistry o:) .

See, cetearyl alcohol is still often produced from ethylene oxide (the same building block used to make polysorbates) and detearyl sulfate is about the same just that sulfates aren’t too hyped at the moment.

Yes, you could mix them to get a similar product (sold for example as Lanette N).

However, it will be an anionic emulsifyer and not a non-ionic one. For that, you could blend your fatty alcohols with a polyglyceryl ester (or go with @Graillotion‘s proposition for polyglucosides or similar). Or at least replace the sulfate with a glutamate, citrate, or lactylate ester to give it a more ‘natural’ appeal.

[Pharma]

Apart from what @Perry said, absorption of an ingredient and alterations thereof depend heavily on the physico-chemical properties of ingredient and those of the base they’re dissolved/dispersed in. Therefore, pentylene glycol, solvents, and any other ingredient may as well enhance, ‘disregard’ (don’t know the proper English term for it), or reduce absorption.

Also, depending on the (alleged) pharmacological effect and many other factors, depth and speed of penetration would be key. Too fast too deep can be more detrimential than too poor too superficial .

But again, in most cases, cosmetic actives are pharmacological inactivces and solely serve the purpose of rainbow farting unicorns.

[Pharma]

Graillotion said:

…all of the above…When you have several advisors…and…their own favorite players….you end up in the miracle section…the extended INCI…as a couple of friendly…big splash…and…a glug…

When you’re already above 100% with your actives and ‘magical sliders’, where do you put your base ingredients? In a second pot? :smiley:

[Pharma]

Graillotion said:

…if we go through this process, of creating a stearate soap….does this dramatically alter the haptics (and thickening abilities) of how it will perform in formula?  In other words….will the formula feel the same…if we have un-neutralized stearic acid, vs the same formula that we neutralized, and created a stearate soap?  I would have to assume….haptics would be different…

Yes, it will be different.

Never going down that rabbit hole again, my arse! Your Floraesters K-20W is potassium soap of jojoba oil :smiley: .

[Pharma]

Regarding the statement of @”Dr Catherine Pratt” : If you want to let ‘dirty’ water sit around, do so in a PET bottle in bright sunshine. The green house effect and the fact that PET is enough UV permeable kills most microbes and other bugs within a few days. It’s also a good way to reuse PET bottles (mind, only PET works properly and remains intact). HERE‘s one of the sites about this ‘survival hack’.

[Pharma]

Abdullah said:

good option will be to use mineral bottled water from reputable big brands to be sure that they are clean + chelating agent.

My thoughts as well.
Take one which is low in calcium.

[Pharma]

Isn’t bis-aminopropyl dimethicone very similar to aminopropyl dimethicone (jugding by the scarce info I could find regarding their structures)?

@ngarayeva001 Myskinrecipes would have the latter in stock (they call it Silicone Hi-Cond).

[Pharma]

That’s ridiculous and wrong in so many things! Thell your boss that they’re lying.

One doesn’t make stable hypochlorous acid using only salt water and electrolysis, not even after 8 years of research. And where are the ingredients used to pH adjust? What is Sodium Magnesium? Sue them .

[Pharma]

It’s just a strong acid which will drop pH and/or neutralise any alkaline component present. If there’s any kind of organic salt in there whereof the acid part has a higher pKa than HCl, then they will ‘switch partners’: for example mixing HCl and sodium lactate will result in NaCl and lactic acid etc.

Spraying a plain HCl solution onto your face… better make sure you wear safety goggles or have a very good health insurance and learned brail before the experiment.

Under ‘normal cosmetic’ conditions, you won’t get hypochlorous acid from HCl. If you were to mix it with hydrogen peroxide (given high enough % for both), you may generate chlorine gas and that one can, with luck, form some hypochlorous acid (which reacts with an excess of hydrochlorous acid to form, anew, chlorine gas… wait long enough and it will disproportionate to form, as an intermediate, hypochlorous acid). Sounds like a bunch of weird and unpredictable chemical reactions, so I break it down for you to simple terms; You’re basically going to smell like a swimmingpool and look like a snowman version of Turia Pitt if you wash your face with that concoction.

And then there’s that magical miracle elixir… that idiot scum who made it a hype needs to be dissolved in it! Sorry for the harsh words, people usually can’t anything for being born with a dysfunct brain and a compulsion to safe the world. The two are just a very unhappy combination, mostly for those who follow these ‘words of salvation’ either because they have a dysfunct brain too or love to be safed by people with a dangerous compulsion.

Cosmetics need to be safe: If you want to capitalise on that hype, simply add minute amounts of bleach to your product and claim the s”*ç out of it (abovementioned chemical reactions will ensure that there are a few molecules of those magical ingredients present). Personally, I despise such products because people get seriously hurt by using and even drinking selfmade hypochlorous acid. Cosmetic industry shouln’t encourage this!

[Pharma]

Sucralose is a sweetener, so sweet that only very faint quantities are enough to give it a sweet taste; rheological effects aren’t likely at such minute amounts .

[Pharma]

What’s the INCI of your product?

What has saponification value to do with any of this?

People have a complexion, emulsions have other characteristics (lost in translation?).

Sure, every emulsifier has an effect on the emulsions it’s used to create.

[Pharma]

NMF = natural moisturising factor = a bunch of mostly small molecules (often degradation products, not building blocks) which keep skin hydrated = neither the bricks not the mortar but the stuff which keeps mortar moist and supple so it doesn’t crumble. Many humectants and moisturisers used in cosmetics are actually constituents of NMF or are at least structurally similar.