[Pharma]

Define coconut milk: Clear coconut water (the liquid on the inside of the nut) or that white, milky or even creamy stuff obtained by homogenized nut pulp and water?

[Pharma]

It’s just one of many names for Tween 20 or with INCI name Polysorbate 20, Polyoxyethylene 20 Cetyl Ether aka Brij 58 has the INCI name Ceteth-20, and Gelwhite is Bentonite. They pretty much ignore INCI names and mix up nomenclatures… sounds like a very reliable product *cough-cough*

PS Googling that would have taken you less time than taking a picture and typing your Q here .

[Pharma]

Aanchal said:

…dishwash gel…

Honestly, I wouldn’t use an aldehyde in something which gets in touch with skin! That stuff is aggressive and allergenic.

[Pharma]

With an airless dispenser, Verstatil PC should do the trick (and it’s rather pH independent). Also, if you don’t introduce too much ‘naturals’ (bug food), you’ll be safe with that setup. BTW, it’s not natural but classified as ‘alternative preservative’.

You don’t need all the water activity ingredients, you just need enough in terms of quantity (not numbers). Imagine you were to use just one at high rate but one is tacky, one is destabilising the emulsion, and one is greasy… so you take 1/3 of all three and get 100% effect but not enough adverse effects to scare off customers. What do you have? There are many ingredients available which lower water activity. Most commonly used ones are polyols such as glycerol, sorbitol, propylene glycol… one can even use sugar, betaine, urea, salt, PCA, sodium lactate… there’s a ton of small water soluble molecules which, as a side effect, reduce water activity to some extent. It’s harder to ‘calculate’ these (there are usually no tables available) but with a common hygrometer, it’s easy to do: Small pot filled with product in larger pot with hydrometer and tightly close it for a day or two. The resulting relative air humidity corresponds to water activity e.g. 100% rH = full water activity = pure water or 70% rH = water activity 0.7 = at worst a few rare fungi growing in head space (above/on the product). That’s just an example! You’ll find nice tables online which tell you at which rH what might grow and therefore, which preservative should be added.

If you also get pH as far down as tolerable/feasible, quite a few more microbes won’t grow. Here again, you’ll find tables online.

[Pharma]

Okay, you’ve got some highly spreading oils and a bunch of glycols (including EHG)… really sounds like a good recipe for humid climate.

Regarding preservative strategy: butylene glycol lowers water activity, EHG is a booster and lowers water activity, and 1,2-hexanediol also lowers water activity and kills mainly moulds and yeasts (due to the low water activity, bacteria are of less concern). They all help with emulsification though they are not emulsifiers (oat meal extract is). Behenyl alcohol is probably in there for rheology/stability reasons by increasing oil phase viscosity. The role of water and polymer are obvious…

From what I can see (I’m not a clairvoyant, I can’t see everything), that’s about the secret of your product. Hypothetically (and if you were undemanding regarding haptics), you could achieve the same result with glycerol, any ‘drying’ oil, water, and an emulsifier system of your choice.

[Pharma]

You’re free to label it as fragrance (although ethyl levulinate is more often used as fragrance with a stronger and very different aroma) or as preservative. In cosmetics, it is usual used as a preservative (it has faint buttery, caramelly, slightly acrid flavour).

There is not too much to market with it. It’s just a preservative derived from natural resources (nowadays lignocellulose). Levulinic acid is a VERY old compound compared to other cosmetic ingredients and it is a widely used intermediate in organic chemistry. So, it’s not new, it’s not better, it’s as safe as most others, it’s not a known allergen (likely because it’s not used widely and not for a very long time -> that’s the main reason for allergies and intolerance of most currently used ‘bad’ preservatives), it’s not broad spectrum but comparatively good against bacteria… that’s not too much food for marketers except for the ‘natural’ and fragrance claims. That and the complementary antimicrobial spectrum are the reason why it is often combined with anisic acid and/or sodium anisate.

I have Dermosoft 1388 eco in stock and plan to use it instead of for example benzoate/sorbate… I hope it meets the expectations I have from it. For now, I will stick with dosage recommendations and will combine it with hurdle technology. The latter includes wetting agents: Here, the term refers to amphiphilic compounds with too short fatty acid chains to function as emulsifiers/surfactants but which ‘wet’ microbial surfaces and allow for better transmembrane penetration of preservatives such as levulinate/anisate.

[Pharma]

It’s a preservative strong against bacteria. It should be used at lower pH (4.5-5.5). See manufacturers info.

It’s best combined with a surface active ingredient (a booster, not a real surfactant) to unleash its full power. It’s commonly combined with anisic acid or sodium anisate resulting in a blend strong not only against bacteria but also against yeasts and mounds.

The nice thing with levulinic acid is that it may be labelled as fragrance .

[Pharma]

Do you have an MSDS or the like? I can’t find anything online.

My guess is that the glutaraldehyde solution is acidic and hence stable and the activator is alkaline rendering it more active but stable.

And that’s about it. Low pH = not sporicidal enough but stable for long time, higher pH = fully active and useful for sterilisation but unstable. Not much you could do to change those physico-chemical laws.

[Pharma]

helenhelen said:

….
I wondered if it’s the long chain length of behenyl alcohol that makes it so drying on me. Perhaps it adheres too well to the oils in my skin and thus rinses them off too much when I wash my hands…

It’s the higher melting point which turns it waxy and hence the drier feeling compared to something which is malleable at skin temperature.

Personally, I like the powdery/silky afterfeel of cetyl palmitate more than the ‘oilier’ touch of cetyl alcohol. Maybe I should give behenyl alcohol a try?

Could this preference be a gender thing (we’re 2:2 and it coincides with gender)? 🙂

[Pharma]

letsalcido said:

…
This is interesting though, I would assume (perhaps erroneously) that like any other denaturants (alcohol, heat…), it’s not as easy to develop resistance to them. So, this and similar compounds are a better alternative for disinfecting solutions than other compounds with affinities to a specific binding site…

QACs are less likely to lead to resistance but microbes are a crafty little folk and find their way around nearly everything thrown at them, even QACs. However, such mechanisms are more difficult and often involve more steps (e.g. changing cell wall composition) and a higher energy demand (e.g. efflux pumps, ‘detox’ metabolism) than simply modifying a binding site with a more or less free of charge SNP.

[Pharma]

Lecithin (as mentioned, there’s a ton of different products under that INCI) is tricky to work with and each requires its own production procedure which has to be followed quite precisely.

And yes, your preservation ain’t one.

[Pharma]

letsalcido said:

…

Maybe someone with a strong pharmacology background has an explanation why many biologically active ingredients have a benzene ring or are cyclic, and if this could play a role in why benzalkonium is more potent than cetrimonium.

Pharmacology doesn’t really apply here, we’re hopefully not going to treat microbes so they feel better and live longer :blush: .

We’re also not interested in ‘biological activity’ (and there are several reasons including chemical universe and patents, not just biology) and hence, such aspects do not apply to disinfectant activities (they may apply to antibiotic activities but that’s also not what we’re looking at here). Not to speak of microbes being VERY different from human bodies. A lot with disinfectants are empirical findings and speculations on the how & why resulting in rules of thumb.

The benzene ring does indeed increase affinity for cell membranes and DNA/RNA and also disturbs more due to a larger head group. The special influence/interaction of aromatic rings with surfactant layers (simply put, cell membranes are exactly that) or more precisely the interphase between water and oil is a known phenomenon but we don’t know why or how.

[Pharma]

There are a few reports showing that alpha-tocopherol can act as a pro-oxidant at higher concentrations. What ‘higher’ concentrations mean, differ between publications.

[Pharma]

How do you get the cucumber extract into the product? Is it oil soluble?

Preservation of anhydrous formulations is highly recommended if there is a surface on which moulds can grow. Using an airless dispenser which ‘auto-closes’ so there is no entry point can be sufficient (Avène uses such dispensers and tubes and often doesn’t even use preservatives in the strict sense for emulsions -> they use for example glycerol).

You could for example use GMCY or caprylyl glycol (both multifunctionals with skin conditioning and some emulsifying properties and stronger against bacteria) combined with anisic acid or magnolia extract 98 (both stronger against yeasts and moulds, the former may be labelled a fragrance, the latter is also an antioxidant -> replace Vit. E and an anti-ageing claim ingredient).

What’s the PEG good for? Is it a PEG-based emulsifier? Then, GMCY/caprylyl glycol might do the job instead (maybe not as good, though).

[Pharma]

If your officially selling, then yes. If it’s a gift for a friend, then you’re not bound to regulations (you’re only guide for right or wrong is your conscience).

[Pharma]

PeaceLoveNaturals said:

…Maybe this is an advanced question as you may need to really understand the ingredients in depth? Or is there an easy way to understand this?

Simple answer: ‘Yes’ and ‘No’.

The explanation of @EVchem is maybe as simple as it gets without having to really understand things… but I guess this won’t be enough to actually help you with the mixing.

[Pharma]

My hair is, unfortunately, pretty much like @letsalcido describes and I can fully concur with his/her observation… Other hair like that of my wife can handle pure shea butter but thin European hair… ugh… use VERY carefully and start super diluted. Waxes & perliser might be an option?

[Pharma]

What is in those two packs EXACTLY?

[Pharma]

Olivate 1000 is that like Olivem 1000? Likely so… Anyway, that one is a emulsifier which contains a ‘wax’ and a nonionic low HLB emulsifier: why exactly the blend has a medium HLB suitable for o/w is a mystery to me, maybe due to impurities such as free fatty acids?).

Varisoft EQ65 is a real alternative to BTMS-50 because it’s a conditioning quaternary ammonium compound like any other, just from renewable resources and, more importantly, it’s readily biodegradable. Olivem 1000 ain’t a good alternative for a quat. It may be useful in a conditioning/styling product (ask someone else what he/she thinks, I dunno) but it won’t have the slip a quat imparts. Varisoft EQ65 has exactly that .

Both products contain identical parts but that’s like comparing bikes with cars just because they both have wheels. Their composition, effect, and behaviour are entirely different and hence, there’s no reason not to combine them. Whether there is reason to combine them is up to you to decide.

[Pharma]

Because of its higher melting point, it’s less oil-like and more wax-like (without being really waxy).

It can have other benefits (or drawbacks) as well but these depend on the overall formulation.

[Pharma]

Teargas used here legally is only pepper spray. Regularly eating a lot of hot peppers (Capsicum chinense types, habanero upwards, maybe fatalii, trinidad moruga scorpion, bhut jolokia, or carolina reaper) imparts a nice immunity. Not 100% but enough so you’re not fainting when getting hit by pepper spray. I can send you seeds or dried pots, I’ve got enough from last harvest 🙂 .

As @Perry mentioned, vaseline & co are great but you have to be very careful when washing/wiping them off! A lot of soap is recommendable.

What can help, more as a treatment than a prevention, are local anaesthetics. The only one used in cosmetics is polidocanol (and essential clover oil but…). Not super efficient though, not even lidocaine helps that much once the burning sensation set in. Getting used to chili peppers really works better (and tastes better, I love super hot peppers).

[Pharma]

My gut feeling is that they don’t help.

Patents by l’Oréal are often a copy-paste of ALL ingredients they can possibly think of. It’s as if they want to claim everything with one piece of paper.

You frequently find phrases like “Incorporation rate from 10 to 90%, by preference 20 to 80%, more precisely 30-70%, and optimally 40-60%”. Just in case they get thrown out of court because of the “too broad/vague claim”.

What’s helpful with that and how is that meant to boost innovation?

They mostly just patent protect academic research transformed to be probably used in cosmetics and make sure that one day, when their employees figure out how to do it, it’s just them who are allowed to do so. The, one day, they bring out a new science-based product claiming to use a new technology when in fact their cosmetic chemists know sh*** about that technology and they simply managed to include something which can be sold as if and is suitable playground for the marketing team. By doing so, they not only don’t use the innovation (which isn’t necessarily theirs to begin with) for anything great, they just make sure the others don’t get the chance to make money with it (either by only marketing it or by truly creating something ingenious).

[Pharma]

BTW it doesn’t matter if it’s w/w or w/v, the order is the same, just the 1% line can differ .

In EU, it’s ordered by weight with reference to the 1% line, hence, the logic conclusion is w/w. Except for some liquids (ethanol), w/v is no longer in use.

[Pharma]

Just make sure H2O2 does not react with the tissue and that the tissues contain enough liquid to keep hands moist for long enough to be active.

[Pharma]

qs is short for Latin ‘quantum satis’ which means ‘as much as needed’ or ‘sufficient amounts’. This is mostly used to adjust pH: Add acid or base until you reach a certain pH; the amount may vary from batch to batch. Or for base formulations wherein the preservative or fragrance is unknown.

Up to 100% means that you fill up to the final volume. This is not just to avoid having to sum up all ingredients and then get some fancy 3 digit odd number for the main ingredient (which is often water) but it allows for using more should some evaporate. A formulation with 20 g water asks for exactly that, one with up to 100% and 80 g other ingredients gives some flexibility and adjustability.