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Ah, sorry.

Maybe Isolan GPS? IIRC @ngarayeva001 has experience with it. Me, I’ll getting some from Italy with my next order. Very curious about its performance.

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A more or less transparent/opalescent microemulsion (Winsor type IV) has an extremely low surface tension, requires a relatively high amount of emulsifiers, and is likely to separate quickly but spontaneously re-emulsify when shaken. This wouldn’t be an issue with a spray and a low surface tension is a huge advantage for easy spraying, a fine mist, and good skin deposition.

Using a w/o emulsion has the advantage that you could use a high % of polyols in the water phase to increase optical density of water matching that of the oil phase. Disadvantages are high viscosity and, if you use high spreading oils, instability during storage and certainly when the emulsion passes through the spray nozzle.

Another emulsion type which can easily be made transparent are HIPE gels. However, these can not be sprayed, either due to high viscosity or breaking during spraying. Again, separation during storage can be an issue with lower viscosities.

[Pharma]

If it should be a clear lotion, you need either a water and an oil phase with fairly identical optical density, a micellar solution (which wouldn’t be a lotion in the proper sense), or a microemulsion.

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I wouldn’t use a PEG emulsifier to dissolve preservatives; too high a risk that they actually become inactive. The solubility limits are 0.3% for caprylyl glycol and 0.1% for EHG, smaller amounts of ‘solvents’ should hence suffice, you might even be okay with simply reducing their concentration or try the proposition of @ngarayeva001 . The only real bug food in your serum is HA, else, there is nothing inside which would necessitate such heavy preservation.

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HERE‘s the Cosmos list or check out supplier infos (I like Evonik and they have also something in stock which might do the trick CLICK).

[Pharma]

Poly-gamma-glutamine sold as Gamma-MAX by Bioleaders Corp. is a humectant allegedly better than hyaluronic acid, stimulates NMF production, has a unique skin feel, and has chelation properties. It’s based on the slime molecule from natto and a bit like natural and biodegradable carbomer.

An emulsifier reduces surface tension and thereby increases ‘wetness’ of water. Potassium linseed soap is traditionally used to soften calluses on feet. I suppose it’s rather the unsaturated fatty acids which do the trick, less the fact that they are surfactants.

If you want to use emulsifiers for your proposed mechanism, go with liposomes and the like . Certain molecules profit from each other but there is no rule of thumbs. Such interactions can be calculated using COSMO-RS (annual fees for such programs are about 20 k)… Hence, you likely have to do trial and error formulations (and somehow measure your mixtures).

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Yes

[Pharma]

Wickers said:

…
Would you find any reason to add small peptides in cosmetics? Copper peptides? Other tripeptides/tetrapeptides?

There is this one: G-NH2 (a monopeptide haha), supposedly a whitening cosmetic peptide. It has a molecular weight of 74 Da and inhibits multiple pathways in melanin synthesis. If I were to acquire this, and dissolve it in water (or whatever solvent), WOULD IT PENETRATE PAST THE S.C?

There is the initial issue of getting past the lipid layers, but I read something that said that excess water on the skin enhances penetration…

Sure, hydration . Amino acids and short peptides are moisturisers which I like to blend with other stuff. I can’t comment on their effectiveness because I use blends (for several reasons) rather than just tacky cheap glycerol.

Some amino acids and short peptides have other benefits such as buffering, antioxidant activity, or chelating metal ions such as iron or copper and thereby protect your product and maybe also your skin. However, this is rather pointless if you were to add it already with a metal on it LoL. But the deep blue colour of copper peptide is simply stunning .

If you are about active amino acids, eat them! I can recommend beta-alanine especially for elderly people. If you feel fancy (and got the cash), use carnosine instead and get some extra benefits or go with cosmetic hypes and use carcinine (Alistin™) with a higher stability and increased skin penetration.

There’s a bunch of amino acid derivatives which I like too (again, more benefits from these if served in a shake).

I still have my doubts that anything labelled ‘cosmetic’ does more than water, glycerol, and petroleum. Sure, there are exceptions like urea. Urea is nice and at higher levels has been shown to increase cell regeneration too. But the fancy part, it’s either marketing or pharmaceutical (and pharma does not use short ‘natural’ peptides for a reason). Gamma-polyglutamic acid would be an atypical peptide-like polymer which works but it’s not working in but on skin and not meant to interfere with receptors or enzymes. Some lipopeptides are fairly efficient… when it comes to surfactancy .

G-NH2 is indeed a monopeptide (it honestly never occurred to me that this is even possible since a ‘normal’ monomer would be called amino acid) or rather the amid of the most simple and cheapest amino acid glycine and correct, it has a 74 Da MW. Does it do anything? Dunno… probably not, it’s too small. Penetration-wise, I’d guess judging from its structure that its about as good as lactic acid. Given that glycinamide is sold as HCl salt, we might compare it with sodium lactate instead. How to increase penetration: If you use the hydrochloride form, try a mix with an equal amount of urea (don’t forget to adjust pH to ~6.2 and maybe add some triacetin or similar). Good occlusion will help too -> use for example a petrolatum based emulsion or a cling wrap after application. Goes for all water and alcohol/polyol solubles: it helps getting them deeper and faster into skin. This brings me smoothly to the third point…

What @emma1985 said. The mentioned occlusion (reduced TEWL) does exactly that and, if you use a carrier rather than a plastic wrap, it does even a bit more. Petroleum works well for petroleum insolubles like glycinamide HCl but not for petroleum soluble ingredients.

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I don’t know what makes its performance but my wife and I did try that lotion by @Graillotion and yes, it definitely is hydrating and caring (and I have to admit, my wife likes it even more than my own latest creation).

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Completely agree with @letsalcido .

[Pharma]

Ah, you’re looking for a salt-tolerant and acid-stable thickener… that’s not a vehicle base.

Using the search function wouldn’t be the worst idea.

[Pharma]

Buy pharmaceutical grade.

Get a book (or rather many) on phytochemistry and medicinal plants .

[Pharma]

What are Cmc, PTF and phynel?

CMC might be carboxymethyl cellulose… a carboxylated cellulose derivative. Wiki can tell you a lot about it .

[Pharma]

Maybe a little bit overkill of preservatives (better that way than the other way round).

Why polysorbate 20%? Not saying it’s unnecessary, just asking for its purpose.

[Pharma]

What about water? It’s a great vehicle and very stable.

[Pharma]

Found what I was looking for (assuming we are talking about the same ingredient sh-oligopeptide-1): CLICK

So, it’s a GMO full length EGF which has a his-tag. The peptide lacks any activity if applied dermally, I cite: Danger of toxicity minimised by lack of transdermal absorption. Topical product only with no potential for abuse.

The oligopeptide-1 and EGF are fairly long and will really not penetrate skin with common penetration enhancers (as mentioned before, you’d need the super fancy stuff, glyceryl oleate and co won’t do the magic). However, because it’s a full length human EGF (the his-tag is likely not going to disturb activity, it’s just there for simpler purification over a zinc-dotted column), it will be active once through stratum corneum. EGF can be applied to ulcers where that protective layer is lacking and it looks as if it would speed up healing = it works. Now, there is one major drawback with uncontrolled use of EGF: Skin cancer! If the producing company weren’t a 100% sure to sell a completely inactive product, you could sue said company for a large amount of money should you get, one day in the future, skin cancer on a skin area where you, in the past, had applied their product even if just once. That’s not a joke! Hyperactivity (uncontrolled, permanent activation) of EGF signalling is one of the mechanisms leading to cancer, activation can speed up transition from pre-cancerous stage to full blown cancer, and hence, inhibiting EGF receptors or EGF signalling is one of many new anti-cancer treatments (one of several example HERE).

I’m not scaremongering and you may decide for yourself whether or not to believe me. For your information, I’m a pharmacist, did my PhD on inflammation (which has many things in common with cancer and cancer development, I used to work a lot with cancer cells, and employed different drugs for and against cancerous cells) in a group focussing on development and synthesis of new anti-cancer molecules (such as epothilones) and did my post doc on cancer prevention.

If you really want to play games with your skin and your health, get a transdermal delivery device (CLICK) or search for ‘hyaluronic pen injector’ on Amazon (all you need is a sterile refilling technique for your peptide solution). It is a very stupid idea to do so but it’s your best bet that it’ll work (whether for or against you remains to be seen in about a decade). If you decide against such a strategy (which is the only reasonable decision), use whichever traditional penetration enhancer you like most because it will (likely/hopefully) not work.

[Pharma]

You should adjust pH and your emulsifier might not hold 2% EOs, consider adding a sufficient amount of a solubiliser (polyglyceryl-10 laurate as an example).

[Pharma]

Also a ‘Thank you for sharing’ from me.

[Pharma]

1: That receptor, should your polypeptide bind to and activate it, is beneath the uppermost dead skin layer. A penetration enhancer seems reasonable.

2: Your polypeptide is likely (Do you have the amino acid sequence? I couldn’t find it) water soluble and hence, a penetration enhancer for lipophilic molecules won’t do any good. Maybe one which disturbs lipid layers, think oleic acid or glyceryl oleate, might work. Urea looks good at first glance but it’s bad for the polypeptide. DMSO would be my pick (I’m a pharmacist, so no restrictions for me LoL).

[Pharma]

Xylitol and sorbitol are quite similar, just swap one with the other 1:1 as a starting point.

[Pharma]

Does anyone know acetamidoethoxyethanol aka ElfaMoist?

[Pharma]

Unlikely to happen in your case, too much water present and not enough heat.

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LOI = List of ingredients according to INCI norms, not the marketing version.

Increase what? Urea? Better get that LOI cause I can’t find it on Google.

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BulkSupplements is fine, I also order there 😉 .

[Pharma]

So, oligopeptide-1 is, allegedly, EGF… just 10 times shorter… in other words, it’s inactive. Assuming magic still existed and that thing really had some biological activity, what you’d need for penetration/delivery system is not using a mist but a syringe or, which would come very close to a mist, a ‘mesotherapy gun’.

What might work as well are solid nanoparticles, liposomes, and the like though good luck loading them with enough oligopeptide and determining whether or not they get out of there at the right place in the right quantity.

My advice: Oligopeptides on skin are usually pixie dust and only good for marketing, nothing more. You certainly agree, marketing does not need a penetration enhancer but using one would likely boost marketing. Go with something which has a nicer smell than dimethyl isosorbide (which is not helping with most oligopeptides, anyway). Are you going to sell that mist or do you make it for yourself?