[Pharma]

Macadamia nuts are stone fruits aka drupes like pistachios, cashews, pecans, coconuts, almonds, apricots, mangos, raspberries, and figs. Only their names sometimes contains the word ‘nut’. Nut is usually a culinary term instead of a botanical one and therefore utterly stupid, to be honest. Many things we colloquially call nuts aren’t actually nuts whilst other seeds are true nuts though nobody calls them so.

Chestnuts and pine nuts as examples are nuts though in many Romance languages aren’t called nut but for example châtaigne or Pinienkerne, respectively, and in the corresponding countries, we wouldn’t think of these seeds as nuts.

Hazelnut is a real nut (and since shortly, so are walnuts), Brazil nut isn’t, peanuts are legumes and their seeds may be regarde as nuts depending on definition, whilst hemp nuts, sunflower seeds, and strawberry seeds are achenes which some put into the same category as nuts.

Can you still follow me or did I drive you nuts?

[Pharma]

Arginine is a strong base and an amino acid = zwitterionic (technically speaking, taurine is an amino acid too… at least an amino acid metabolite)

-> You are likely preferring to add an acid to adjust pH

-> No issues between the two, neither un-pH-adjusted nor pH-adjusted

[Pharma]

HOLY SH*ç”! @Graillotion I have completely zapped that mac nut oil contains that high level of palmitoleic acid! @helenhelen That oil is awsom, not just the nuts .

Soory, I have to go (to my *shame on me* corner).

[Pharma]

Unlikely. Too costly in refined/purified form. Eat fatty coldwater fish or use sea buckthorn pulp oil .

[Pharma]

@Graillotion Degas your product prior to filling .

[Pharma]

suswang8 said:

Also, @Pharma: 

-1-  Is it your gut instinct that it is the brewed tea solution that is more likely the culprit in my formula or the (powdered) green tea extract?  I ask because I prepared a hair conditioner with 1pct green tea extract and it has held up…so far, at least.

-2-  I thought ascorbic acid serums are notorious for oxidizing easily?  I assume this issue is not relevant for someone like myself who just wants to add a small percentage (1%?) of it to a preparation? 

Thank you.

Sorry, haven’t seen your comment earlier.

1. I don’t know what type of extract you use but I know that brewed tea is full of stuff which very easily oxidises.

2. Correct. This oxidation is nearly always there (due to oxygen in the product), it just becomes more visible in highe concentrations. In your case, you see about the same happen with green tea instead of ascorbic acid .

[Pharma]

MarieSilva_27 said:

…

I want to use a mixture between vegetal origin ingredients and synthetics. So, you can basically use everything commonly used.

As a moisturizers, glycerin and pentylene glycol (booster preservative too). Doesn’t work that way. Pentylene glycol in a shampoo looks like you’re rich and don’t know where to spend your money.

…

As a thickening agents, pectin gum, xanthan gum, carragenan gum or synthetic polymers. See first comment: No need for these, use salt to thicken (if you use the right surfactants)

As a pH regulator , L-arginine. Depeding on your starting material, you might need an acid instead. See also second comment.

 As a fragrance i will use synthetic fragrance without allergens. Do you know which smell is better for dogs? None, none is clearly best for dogs. They will be very happy with the fish oil smell .

As a surfactant, I would prefer using vegetal origin surfactants, please What surfactants you would recommended? Standard blends SLES/CAPB whatever you want, they’re at least in part vegetal origin. You’ll find a ton of recommendations here.

I think i have to formulate a shampoo with a mixture of aniónic, non-ionic and amphoteric surfactants, right? Depends.

As a preservative    i need one that works at pH 7.00,. Why pH 7? See older discussions about dog shampoo.

I have to formulate with fish oil, i have to introduce a 1% of fish oil for omega-3 cosmetics propertis. They will LOVE your shampoo! However, dogs don’t buy shampoo, people do… maybe those will not like it that much…

…

See in bold

[Pharma]

RedCoast said:

You could get away with 10% ethanol if you enhance it with glycols and other ingredients that reduce the water activity and minimize botanical extracts.

Antimicrobial glycols don’t usually act by lowering water activity. You’d need something in the range of ~40%, if memory serves me right, for most to reduce water activity below the ‘growth possible’ threshold. Some glycols act as antimicrobials and/or preservative boosters at levels in the low % range and that doesn’t noticeably affect water activity.

[Pharma]

chemicalmatt said:

…lecithin is anionic, I would attempt to include a little anionic soap here, such as a (dare I incur the wrath of @Pharma?) phosphate ester with a higher HLB, or even Potassium Cocoate and not much of it either. On the other hand, a wee bit of PEG-10 Dimethicone will steady that w/o formula also…

Except phosphatidylinositol and some minor constituents, ‘lecithin molecules’ are at physiological pH zwitterionic. However, the overall charge is negative and hence, behaviour of lecithin ‘droplets’ is anionic. Combining with what @chemicalmatt suggested is, very often, a very good advise.

[Pharma]

Maybe it’s present at 0.00001%? It’s a claim ingredient, nothing more.

Liquid forms are not pure but dissolved biotin. It’s soluble in water and alcohol, both of which aren’t miscible with oils and will result in the same issue as solid biotin (though this time it’ll be a liquid droplet on the bottom rather than crystals floating around).

[Pharma]

Dehydoxanthan (Amaze XT) has a higher viscosity than traditional xanthan = you can use less.

Lysolecithin is amphoteric and hence, in theory, compatible with anionic polymers. Without knowing what else is in your product, I see no reason why it shouldn’t work.

[Pharma]

Lecithin can be used for o/w and w/o depending on process and composition. A quick workaround would be the combination with a pure w/o emulsifier such as PGPR. And don’t mind HLB and required HLB values, they aren’t accurate/applicable in this context.

[Pharma]

The two silica are water-wettable and are quite different on a crystal-structure level (another factor which influences light scattering and therefore mattifying effects) though their chemical composition is identical. Both will show some effect on emulsions, they can even be used to form Pickering emulsions in the absence of any other emulsifier. Bad thing is, they have a negative surface charge and will therefore adhere to the surfaces of the oil droplets killing the positive zeta potential of a cationic emulsion -> simply said, you’ll risk losing emulsion stability rather than gaining it.

Silica with lipophilic coatings (e.g. silica dimethyl silylate) will go into the oil phase and can gel it. They should not interfere with emulsifiers.

Remember, the optical effects of silicas depend on optical density differences (meaning that the medium they’re dispersed in counts) too. Also, water dispersable ones act like arrowroot: Though they do get wet in water, they also get ‘wet’ in oils and hence bind oils rendering the remaining oil phase on the skin less greasy and less shiny.

[Pharma]

As an example: Eucerin in the EU can sell a product called ‘AtopiControl’ which is derived from and resembles the word ‘atopic dermatitis’, a condition for which this line has been designed. However, in Switzerland, that name is already too close to a disease’s name and hence, the name had to be truncated to ‘AtoControl’.

Mind, that product range isn’t intended as drugs to treat atopic dermatitis but as supplemental care for that and related skin conditions. Depending on regulations/country, this alone is already a tabu for cosmetics.

[Pharma]

Graillotion said:

… Learn something new each day…

That one of the wisest sayings on earth. The other one I live by is ‘Taking fills the belly, giving fills the heart’. Turns out, give to the right people and you also get a full belly (true, a very unbalanced diet, all those mac nuts but once you tasted the dehydrated mac nuts you really don’t care :smiley: ).

@abierose, @Graillotion, @seaberry, @Abdullah, and all the others:

You’re welcome (and thanks for the thanks)! One can’t take knowledge and experience to the grave. Having people around who don’t just cherish but evolve when others share their intellectual legacy feels good, it makes me happy & gives my life a purpose. This giant ball we all live on could be so much of a better place when people wouldn’t only go for $$ (but mac nuts instead LoL).

[Pharma]

CedarWind108 said:

PCA Ethyl Cocoyl Arginate from Ajinomoto

That’s not a polymer . Regarding ‘natural’, it’s just derived from renewable resources likely including organic synthethesis for some of the reactions and maybe enzymatic ones (likely using enzymes from genetically or biotechnologically modified organisms) for others.

[Pharma]

Thanks for sharing, I’ll keep that in mind @chemicalmatt .

[Pharma]

Call me Pharmatt o:)

[Pharma]

I can only concur with @Graillotion.

There’s a few other drugs (fully synthetic and usually not approved in topical preparations, let alone cosmetics) which promote hair growth… but that’s just as a side note.

[Pharma]

An emulsion is neiter something homogeneous nor at an equilibrium but it’s a somewhat random semi-stable construct. Like a house of cards just that one forms it by tossing a few decks into a pot and stirring it. Weird things happen nobody can predict.

[Pharma]

Use betaine (aka trimethyl glycine) instead of salt. Likely requires a somewhat higher %, certainly costs more, but it’s a common & hyped nutrient supplement (an amino acid derivative and pseudo-vitamin), good humectant (love it), and doesn’t sound ‘salty’ unless you accidentally mention that it is what chemists call ‘an inner salt’ .

[Pharma]

PFAS are super persistant in nature, used on a large scale, and hence are in some areas found in traces everywhere. This, and the possibility of safer alternatives, lead to the ban of the most prevalent PFAS in the EU some years back. Check out THIS and THAT.

Are all dangerous? We don’t know. Many are niche products and will not be banned for some time. However, it’s typical for cosmetics to use something which is useless but just because it’s great for marketing (meaning some scientific background and fancy sounding whatsoever). Like breathable liquids… never really made it, too expensive, too environmentally concerning, not recyclable, not enough data regarding their effects on health. ‘But lots of money, time, and effort had been invested into these, what a pity couldn’t we sell it! So lets make cosmetics out of it !‘ THAT‘s the product. A perfect reflection of complete and utter human stupidity. In defense of perfluorated molecules: breathable air seems to be only possible whith these. Most other applications have alternatives (not having one may allow companies to use concernable stuff for longer as would be good and healthy for our planet including it’s little inhabitants called humans). Maybe the alternatives aren’t as cheap, easy to work with, and efficient but do we humans really have to go the way of least resistance every time althoug we know that it usually is the most problematic on the long run?

[Pharma]

Salicylic acid is soluble in water-glycol (methylpropanediol, butylene glycol) mixtures. The more SA, the more glycol. You’ll have to try.

I’d say that polysorbate 20 is in there simply to lower surface tension which makes the liquid feel more liquid and will more readily wetten skin. Depending on the leaf extract, it might help with its dissolution too.

Because they use tetrasodium EDTA, some sodium hydroxide is needed to bring pH down.

Meaning, for a first trial, all you need is water, glycols of your choice, and SA.

[Pharma]

If your starting material is clean and free from or rather below approved limits for toxins/microbes/pesticides/heavy metals, an extract is likely ‘clean’ too.

I’m not convinced that cosmetic extract manufacturers actually test a lot of things but I’d assume (I do not know, I simply imply ‘evil’ intentions ) they rely on the suppliers of their raw materials and extrapolate. As an exampel: You can’t enrich a water soluble toxin in an oil infusion and if said toxin within a starting material is below approved margines…

It also depends on the quantities you sell, at least in Europe. Small yearly sales of artisanal/manual production are often allowed some freedom.

Many manufacturers also just take random samples of things which are likely okay. Besides, one can’t possibly test for everything without driving costs and labour upwards.

However, as a cosmetic manufacturer (in Europe), you are liable for defaults in what you produce/sell and it’s up to you to guarantee consumer safety. How you do that is your choice and not super well regulated.

[Pharma]

Diluting with 1 to 10 parts water is common pharmaceutical practice if it’s not possible to get an adequate reading otherwise (for example water content <30% in a o/w emulsion); less water is always better. What I’m saying is that in most cases (high stearic acid products are one of the exceptions) the pH will not change enough to be of any cosmetically relevant concern.

Regarding w/o emulsions: determining the ‘real’ pH of the inner phase may be close to impossible with standard means.