OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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You would probably see the emulsion separate if you’ve put in too much salt.
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You need to put enough in the formula for it to pass a preservative efficacy test.
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I agree. Big companies take existing formulas and tweak them a bit to fit whatever new marketing story they want to tell. DOE is not really helpful for that. Also, there aren’t very accurate tests for evaluating consumer perception of the performance of a product so DOE becomes less useful.
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Sometimes they make their own ingredients and other times they get products from suppliers made specially for them. They have a lot of leverage. They may create their own emulsifier blend then get one of the raw material suppliers to make it for them. They also aren’t single sourced on many ingredients.
The blends are more expensive because there is extra processing required to make them. Also, they are probably more popular since you can get by with one ingredient in storage instead of two.
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If you want a proper shampoo get some Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Laureth Sulfate. Then some Cocamidopropyl Betaine. That will be a proper shampoo. This one…it’s just a mess.
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That depends on what they consider 100% natural. What standards are you following? Also, what emulsifier are you using that is 100% natural? Lecithin?
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Glycerin
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Could you list all the ingredients in your formula? Without that information it’s difficult to answer. For example, you don’t mention water. Without water how are you taking pH?
But in general, a weak acid compound like lactic acid is going to exist in a solution of water as both the acid and its conjugate base (lactate). The lower the pH, the more the equilibrium equation shifts away from the lactate to the acid.
Here is a good basic review of acid and base chemistry.
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/acids-and-bases-topic -
Without an occlusive agent like Petrolatum or Dimethicone in your formula, it’s not going to be terribly effective for dry skin.
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That depends on what you are doing with the product. If you are just using it for yourself, you probably don’t have to. If you are selling the product, then you should use that or distilled water. It is just more consistent.
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Glycerin is already a humectant which is what Propylene Glycol is. However, PG is less sticky so you could reduce the stickiness of the formula substituting out some Glycerin for PG.
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@Ada - you’ve seen what happens when you try to do it without Carbomer. The problem with xanthan gum is the more you add, the slimier it gets.
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Well, let’s see. You could probably make something that works pretty much the same with…
AQUA/WATER
GLYCERIN
DIMETHICONE
ISONONYL ISONONANOATE
CARBOMER
TRIETHANOLAMINE
CAPRYLYL GLYCOL
TETRASODIUM EDTA
CITRIC ACID
XANTHAN GUM
METHYLPARABEN
PHENOXYETHANOL
Color
Fragrance -
Do you have an ingredient list of a product that you’re talking about?
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The problem is that you aren’t using the right ingredients. “Rose hydrolate” is really just water with maybe some odor molecules in there. https://www.amphora-aromatics.com/natural-skin-care/natural-toners/floral-waters/organic-rose-water-hydrolate-200ml-info But it doesn’t have any real effect.
Essentially, you’ve made a formula with Water, Glycerin, Sorbitol, HA, Xanthan gum, and preservative. You probably don’t have enough Xanthan gum. Go to 0.5%
But here are the ingredients of the formula you are trying to emulate. They use Carbomer as the thickener.
AQUA/WATER
GLYCERIN
ALCOHOL DENAT.
DIMETHICONE
ISONONYL ISONONANOATE
SILANETRIOL
CARBOMER
TRIETHANOLAMINE
DIMETHICONOL
ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE
SODIUM HYALURONATE
SILICA DIMETHYL SILYLATE
HYALURONIC ACID
PHYLLOSTACHYS BAMBUSOIDES EXTRACT
CAPRYLYL GLYCOL
TETRASODIUM EDTA
CITRIC ACID
BIOSACCHARIDE GUM-1
XANTHAN GUM
PANTHENOL
MENTHOXYPROPANEDIOL
ETHYLHEXYL PALMITATE
BUTYLENE GLYCOL
HEXYLENE GLYCOL
TOCOPHEROL
POTASSIUM SORBATE
SORBIC ACID
METHYLPARABEN
SODIUM BENZOATE
PHENOXYETHANOL
CHLORPHENESIN
CI 42090/BLUE 1
LINALOOL
LIMONENE
PARFUM/FRAGRANCE -
@Belassi - what’s the active ingredient in it?
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I’d put in 0.01%. So, in a batch of 10,000g you would put in 1 gram.
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0.01% or less. That will have about the same effect as if you had used 5%.
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@shuppy - yes, there are lots of exaggerators. I agree, there are tons of ingredients that make claims that are not real. I even think Niacinamide is overrated too. But I’m particularly skeptical. I think the claim “anti-inflammatory” is mostly a joke.
There are however, ingredients that do work for acne, skin lightening, etc. These have FDA monographs and data behind them to support their safety and efficacy.
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That is a bit of a cynical take on the industry. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but maybe too cynical.
First, skin care products work. We can make great cleansers, excellent moisturizers. Hair removal depilatories and exfoliation products all work. And of course, color cosmetics are effective at making people feel better about how they look. Cosmetics work! And cosmetic/drugs work too. Sunscreens, antiperspirants, skin lighteners, and anti acne products work.
I see 2 significant problems with the cosmetic industry that lead to what you call lies.
1. There haven’t been any consumer perceivable technological improvements in the last 20 to 30 years.
2. There is no consumer perceivable, proprietary technology that makes one company’s products better than another. That is to say, every company can make products that work just as well as every other company.
Of course, in the cosmetic industry consumers always want something new. The products they have might actually work but they get bored with them. Consumers want to look better and switching to a new product gives them hope that this time, they might look better.
And it requires stories to give people that hope. Stories in the form of “active ingredients.” Marketers need a hero ingredient. They don’t want to talk about glycerin, or petrolatum or mineral oil (the old ingredients that actually work). No, they’d much rather make stories about Hyaluronic acid, or Bakuchiol or Argan oil. Even though you can demonstrate that these ingredients probably don’t work as well as the old technology. But new stories sell new products.
So, yeah there is a lot of misleading and exaggeration going on in the cosmetic industry. It’s understandable and on some level, it’s what consumers want.
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I should add that 4% Polyquat 7 is overkill too. You probably won’t notice any difference between 4% and 1%.
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I know of no scientifically controlled evidence to demonstrate alcohol damages hair.
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This demonstrates the real problem of using single sourced materials. If your source runs out, so does your business.
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That depends on what ingredients are in your light moisturizer.
Citric acid is not a preservative. You should also have a chelating agent in the formula (like Disodium EDTA).You would get more helpful answers if you listed all the ingredients in your formula.
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@Whiskey - Welcome to the forum!