OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Unfortunately, most of the magnesium hydroxide you would use is synthetic too. https://www.garrisonminerals.com/post/how-magnesium-hydroxide-is-made
And also “Commercial brucite, a worldwide used raw material deemed safe, can be contaminated by asbestos” - https://rosa.uniroma1.it/rosa04/periodico_di_mineralogia/article/view/17384
There is a reason that mainstream cosmetic companies don’t use this technology any longer…other things just work better.
To your pH question, you’ll have to give more of the formula to answer that. How much are you using?
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These are both good references. They are case studies and represent people who actually have allergic reactions to castor oil / castor beans.
Just because something is labeled “EPA Safer Choice” doesn’t mean it is 100% completely safe for everyone. If you are a person with an allergic reaction to castor oil, it is certainly not the “safer” choice.
If the EPA safer choice used a criteria of being 100% safe for everyone, there would be no substances on the list because nothing is safe for everyone.
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What do you want to use them for? What type of formula?
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@natiyo123 - except it’s not hypoallergenic to the people who have an allergic reaction to it.
No chemical is free from causing an allergic reaction in some people.
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If IFRA says don’t use the amount you’re using, you should follow that guideline. At least in the US, if they believe your product harmed them they would point to the fact that you are using an ingredient outside the safety limits of a respected organization.
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The first thing you are doing wrong is using TOO MANY ingredients!
You have over 40 ingredients! This is way too complicated.So, first cut out unessential / overlaping ingredients.
For example, you include Polyquaternium 7, Polyquaternium 47, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride & Polyquaternium 39. Why? They function the same way. There is no need to have both of them. You only need 1 cationic polymer at most.
Then you have Cetrimonium Chloride, Behentrimonium Chloride, Behentrimonium Methosulfate… These are all cationic surfactants that are all competing for the same sites on the hair. It is useless to have 3 when only 1 is needed.
Then you have oils and butters and all kinds of other things that simply interfere with the working of all the other ingredients.
If you want to create a good product you should start with only essential ingredients.
Water
Cationic Surfactant
Cationic Polymer
Fatty alcohol
Emulsifier
Fragrance
pH adjuster
PreservativeOnce you create this formula, see how it performs. If it doesn’t work how you want then add ONE ingredient to see if that makes an improvement. If it works, then add some other ingredient to see if you make it work better. But if adding an ingredient makes no improvement, take it out and try something else.
There is really no reason to have any more than 15 ingredients in a conditioner.
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You’ll need to post all the ingredients in your formula if you want to get any useful answers.
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Just to be clear, we’re suggesting that the bottle swelling is caused by the result of microbial growth. It’s like when bread dough rises.
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You have to remember, pretty much all food is meant to be thrown out after a week or maybe a little longer.
Cosmetics are meant to last at least a year, maybe longer. They require better preservatives.
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The CIR in US recommends a maximum of 0.25% cetrimonium chloride for leave on
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Once you apply it you can rinse it off. While people feel like they have to leave it on for some time, there is not really any noticeable extra benefit. Sometimes I’ll apply conditioner to my hair, shave my face, then rinse out the conditioner. But just applying and rinsing out pretty much works the same.
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Yeah, cetrimonium chloride is not useful in a shampoo, especially at such a high level. You might sometimes see it as a part of a blend of surfactants but it is not commonly included nor is it added for a conditioning effect in a shampoo.
2 in 1s are made using silicones as the conditioning ingredient.
3 in 1s are not really a thing (just a marketing story).
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What’s the question?
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@Anna_Maria what is the surfactant system?
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@Paprik - no we never pre-swelled it.
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@Paprik - we just removed the HPMC. It turns out no one could tell a difference and salt worked fine as a thickener
we added it right in the beginning, right after the water and dye and before the surfactants
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Yeah, we used HPMC in our shampoo until we removed it in a cost savings measure. HEC was in our conditioner formula. (VO5)
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I don’t think salt will help thicken that system. Perhaps a cellulouse like Hydroxypropyl Methylcelluose would help.
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@MurtazaHakim - I’d suggest you try a knockout experiment.
@Richard - compounders can certainly get creative in their methods to speed things up or make batching easier. Sometimes they work, but often it leads to problems as you’ve illustrated.
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I think you are starting with too many ingredients. For example cetrimonium chloride & BTMS do the same thing. There is not a good reason to have both. Similarly, coconut oil & shea butter have overlapping purposes. And when you use dimethicone you’ll override any effect of the oils so you don’t really need oils if using dimethicone. You should also use something like Glyceryl Stearate to help emulsify the system.
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What is your question?
did you make the formula?
what was the result/problem? -
@Bill_Toge - interesting challenges. I love the advice to go back and formulate from first principles. You just can’t always count on the accuracy of ingredient lists.
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Try Doug Schoon for a consultant
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Yeah, cetrimonium chloride
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Cut down the plant extracts to 1% or less. They’re not functioning in the product anyway