OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Honestly, we never did find what caused the problem. As I recall, it was one production batch and it didn’t happen again.
It’s likely that there is some kind of oxidation reaction happening. So adding an antioxidant or EDTA may help stop the problem.
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Typically, foam problems are a result of using the wrong mixing equipment. The best way to ensure your shampoo isn’t too foamy is to not draw air into the batch when making it. Heating the formula can also reduce the amount of foam created during manufacture.
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@NellyMthethwa - you’ll get more helpful responses if you list the ingredients in your formula.
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Yes, it would be helpful to know if it were rinse-off or leave-in.
For a rinse off product, you’ve got too much Panthenol & Hydrolyzed Wheat protein. These things are water soluble and will just rinse down the drain.
For leave-in you’ve got too much BTMS (you don’t need it) and eucalyptus oil (it may cause allergic reactions).
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What specifically do you want to know?
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I recall that happening to a formula I worked on. It too was a serum thickened with hydroxyethylcellulose. I believe it was a microbial contamination issue.
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@emma1985 - unless you’ve tested literally every other conditioner, then you can’t make that claim.
But I dare say, if you did a blinded test comparing the performance of Olaplex to other conditioners, it would not support your anecdotal experience.
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@vhogiono - Yes, that would make more sense. 0.45% “active” Polyquaternium 7 is much more reasonable than 5% “active” PQ7
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There are three possible reasons that the color of your product is changing over time. (I’m assuming that is what is happening). These include…
1. Oxidation reaction - Due to free radicals in your formula
2. UV degradation - Due to light exposure
3. Chemical degradation - Due to some chemical reaction with another ingredient in your formula.To stop oxidation you need an antioxidant. (e.g. BHT)
To stop UV degradation you need a UV absorber (and/or an opaque container) - e.g Benzophenone-9
To stop chemical degradation you need to remove the chemical that is causing the reaction.Without knowing your whole formula there’s not much more advice to give about solving the problem.
But I will add a couple additional comments of which you might not be aware.
- Leucidal is not a robust preservative. This is especially true if you are using botanical ingredients. It is unlikely your product will be safe to use for any significant length of time.
- Elderberry powder is not a legal colorant. The FDA strictly limits the colorants allowed in cosmetics. There is a specific list and if the ingredient is not on the list it is illegal to use it for coloring your product. The fact that it is natural is not relevant.
Now, if you are just using the product for yourself at home it may be fine. Although you really should consider a better preservative. But if you are going to ever attempt to sell the product, you should address those problems now.
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Yeah, I’ve seen ’em. I used to comment more in the r/HaircareScience subreddit but it just became pointless. They downvote you to hell if you speak against Olaplex or suggest “sulfate free” shampoos aren’t the greatest innovation in hair care since..well since shampoo.
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@natzam44 - Their ability to amass a cult following is the real innovation of their products. I think it also helps that they’ve indoctrinated an army of stylists (who make money off of selling the process) to help spread the word.
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You might find this discussion relevant.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/53536#Comment_53536I see it as marketing hype with little supporting scientific evidence. But they’re really good at convincing the Internet they are special.
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PQ10 & PQ7 are the alternatives to silicone. And as you’ve found out, they don’t work as well. In fact, nothing works as well as silicones.
It’s like comparing a car to horse. Silicones are cars. There are no alternatives to replace it. The best you can get are the polymers that are the equivalent to horses. They work, just a lot less efficiently.
Of course, they are much better than oils which are a complete waste. They only make the shampoo perform worse. Don’t put oils in shampoos. The whole point of a shampoo is to remove oils.
Additionally, cationic surfactants like Cetrimonium Chloride will not work either. You typically can’t mix Anionic surfactants with Cationic surfactants.
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5% Polyquat 7!!? Woah! Probably don’t need more than 1%
But this would be a great opportunity to do a knockout experiment.
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A trick you can use to determine if a finished product is o/w or w/o is to take a small sample and drop it in some water. If the drop of product starts to spread out and dilute then it’s o/w. If it remains in a little ball with minimal interaction with the water, it’s w/o.
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Perhaps the most glaring issue is that it is unsafe to use Cetrimonium Chloride at 2% in a leave on product. The CIR limit for safe use of Cetrimonium Chloride is 0.25%. The SCCS opinion is a 1% safety limit for Cetrimonium Chloride.
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@ngarayeva001 - it’s all about the experience. Much of the enjoyment of cosmetics is based on the experience.
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@Walkerette - It all depends on your goals. The courses from the Institute of Personal Care are some of the better ones available as they are less naive about the cosmetic industry. But the diplomas given don’t really mean anything to companies in the cosmetic industry. While the information is good, the promise of making you a diploma carrying cosmetic chemist is an exaggeration.
That’s why our classes don’t promise diplomas or certifications or anything. I realize that granting such things is over promising what the course can actually do. Our courses prepare people for working in the cosmetic industry and teach you how to make cosmetic products as is done in industry. To get a job though, you’ll still need a college degree in something like Chemistry or Chemical Engineering.
But as @Pattsi said, if your goal is to make your own cosmetic brand, learning to make cosmetics is not a good use of money or time. You need to learn sales and marketing! Drunk Elephant, Sunday Riley, and Tata Harper weren’t successful because they learned to make their own formulas. They were successful because they learned how to tell a marketing story. They properly leveraged social media and advertising.
You might benefit from reading through the free report I wrote on the subject.
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You can follow the method suggested here. Cosmetic stability testing
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@Bill_Toge - good point.
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Probably some moisture got in the product or in one of the raw materials.
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Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the system.
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Whether you need another emulsifier or not depends on whether your product is stable. If the formula is stable with a single emulsifier, you don’t need another one. If it’s not, adding an additional emulsifier may improve stability.
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Sales data is obtained from a company called IRI
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You can see the replay through the IFSCC Website.