OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Brands that label their cosmetics in this way are violating the rules of the INCI dictionary labeling and thus the FDA rules too.
You can claim “Demineralized water” and even “Deionized water” in your label copy. But in your ingredient list the only allowed word to describe it is…WATER (or Aqua or Eau in another country)
Why brands label their water? I assume they think there is some marketing advantage to it.
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I think this regulation from the FDA on intended use is relevant.
Basically, if your intention is to add SA for it’s anti-acne effect, even if you do not call out or advertise that effect your product is considered a drug by the FDA.
If your intention is to add SA for it’s exfoliation effect, you’ll have to be able to prove that’s why you added it. Calling your product an acne cream but saying the SA was added for some other reason seems a difficult claim to prove in my opinion.
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@Camel - As @Rockstargirl said, they work differently so they will have a different effect on different people’s skin.
This is an older study but it looks like an SA cleanser would be more effective than a BP cleanser.
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I think most companies use deionized water. See this post on the subject of water for cosmetics.
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According to this paper, there was no statistically significant difference.
But it’s possible as 2% is the highest level of SA allowed while BPO is allowed up to 10%. It seems strange they would compare the maximum level of SA versus a lower level of BPO. The funding from the study came from La Roche Possay so it’s likely they have a salicylic acid product they were trying to sell.
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@emma1985 - In truth, I’m not really an expert on the subject either which is the main reason I asked.
I find most of the published research on anti-aging ingredients disappointing. Even the double-blind placebo controlled stuff (which is very few). Mostly because they never seem to pick a placebo that contains a well-formulated petrolatum base moisturizer.
These studies always seem to pick weak controls so they can show bigger differences. That is great for advertising copy & getting patents, but for answering the question “Is there any real additional benefit to using this product over a standard moisturizer?” it’s not really helpful.
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@emma1985 - How do you feel about the evidence of the effectiveness of Ascorbic Acid?
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You’re asking for an objective answer to a subjective question. For some 30 ug/g is not enough. For other people it’s too much
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Of those two, Troycare sounds preferred. At least it has some reasonable preservatives in it. Linatural…not so much. Those are preservative “boosters”.
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Of course, the research paper does ignore the biggest benefit to using Niacinamide….having it in your formula and talking about it increases sales.
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@Microformulation - yeah I agree. I remember synthesizing a lot of ingredients in Organic Chemistry (even DEET). But I never thought it was a good idea to put it on my skin!
Mixing cosmetic ingredients in beakers at home is fine. Conducting organic synthesis then using the ingredients…that’s a bit less fine.
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I highly doubt that it is effective in a rinse-off product (especially a cleanser).
In fact, I’m not even sure I believe it has much benefit in a leave on product.
This summary of research suggests just how weak the data for positive benefits is.“Although the existing data are not sufficient for a scientifically
founded evaluation, it can be stated that the use of niacinamide in galenic preparations for epicutaneous application
offers most interesting prospects.”If they have a hard time demonstrating benefit with leave-on, you can be quite certain there is no noticeable benefit from rinse-off.
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The perils of trying to use influencers to help develop a brand.
Don’t people realize that everything they put up on the Internet or send in an email can come back to them later?
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That would be a 1% solution. 10 g / 1000 g = 1%
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I’m not sure if he does hair products but you might reach out to Colin Sanders
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If you’re looking for a final review before embarking, here is my suggestion.
Get rid of most of your ingredients. Start simple and then add ingredients as necessary. Make this formula…
AQUAMono Propylene GlycolQUATERNIUM-80 or AMODIMETHICONE (you don’t need both)DISODIUM EDTADMDM HYDANTOINMethylparabenTest it. Then add ingredients to this formula as needed.
Panthenol is a claims ingredient. It does nothing noticeable if there are other ingredients like silicones present. Salicylic acid does not protect hair from sunlight in any noticeable way.
I do not believe Glycolic Acid will do much for straightening hair either. However, the suppliers make some claims about it so it might be worth testing a formula with and without Glycolic Acid to see if it actually does anything.
But overall, when you are starting a formulation project use FEWER ingredients for your first formula. Don’t start with a dozen ingredients because you will have no idea what ingredients are actually having an impact. Add ingredients to solve demonstrated problems. Don’t add them because you’ve been told they will have some effect.
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We used pH as a measure for formula quality. To that end using a pH meter where you can stick the probe into the product was fine. Water based products like shampoo, conditioner, styling gel, lotion, and more worked fine this way. It doesn’t necessarily give a perfectly accurate reading of the pH, but it is much better than a pH strip and was consistent enough to be useful for QC.
I know some people advocate taking a sample of a product, diluting it in water, then taking the pH but I’ve always found this unnecessary.
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@ggpetrov - you could prove it scientifically. Just make a batch with the extra Allantoin and a batch without the extra. Then test it (on a blinded basis) to see if you can tell a difference. It would work best if you had 3 samples. 2 of 1 type and 1 of the other type. Then see if you can pick out the odd sample.
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What question do you have about the formula?
Have you made the formula? What were the results?
What do you want improved? Was the formula stable?Just at a glance, I think Panthenol at .75% is useless and unneeded.
I don’t see any benefit to including both Salicylic acid and Glyoxylic acid. One acid is fine.But really…what specifically are you asking about?
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Petrolatum and mineral oil
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I wonder if it does much for your skin beyond what Propylene Glycol would do.
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They may also have used a contract manufacturer where they don’t have as much control over manufacture hygiene as they would at one of their own facilities.
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@Zahra - Since you are new to formulating you seem to have a common fundamental misunderstanding of how to put together a formula.
If you begin the process from a starting formula that has been proven to work, then you simply need to adjust the levels of the ingredients in the formula or maybe add an ingredient to get some slightly improved effects.
But you seem to be starting from a completely, unproven formula.
If you are starting with just raw materials you need to begin with a simple formula. The simplest really. Make a formula with…
WATER
POLYQUATERNIUM 6
PreservativeThen test that formula and see whether it works or not.
If it doesn’t work & needs improvement is some area, simply add ONE more ingredient. Continue to do this until you get a formula that works as desired.
You should not start with 24 ingredients because you have no idea what each one is contributing to the effect of the final formula.
But if you continue to wish to use every ingredient, then you’ll need to do a knockout experiment to determine the effect of each ingredient.
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Honestly you have a ridiculous number of ingredients. The key to creating a good formula is to keep it simple. Do not add more ingredients than you need.
why add 5 types of silicone when 1 would work fine?
why add two acids when 1 works fine?
why add two different types of protein when one works?You have 24 ingredients. Cut it down to 10 ingredients.
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And undermined by clean beauty brands that benefit from fear marketing.