OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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You’re not imagining it. It’s just that the product you’re selling would be technically illegal in the US by some people’s reading. The only approved lightening ingredient in the US is Hydroquinone.
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@PharmaSpain - that’s more of a legal question and will depend on who is interpreting the law. The FDA has recently written a position on these products
In my reading they say that the important thing is a product’s intent. If you are adding an ingredient that you intend to interact with the skin metabolism then that would seem to me to make it a drug even if you don’t claim it. But perhaps my interpretation is wrong. -
No, they don’t work.
It’s just a marketing trick. -
Hello Clark. Thanks for the questions.
1. Removing 1/2 in layer of foam is not a good thing to do. You are getting the foam because you are not using the right equipment to formulate. See this discussion on what you should be using. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/641/laboratory-set-up-equipment-list2. Water in oil emulsions are more difficult to formulate but not impossible. It will feel a bit more greasy and be more expensive to make. You also don’t get the cooling sensation of an oil in water emulsion. But there are products on the market that use either form.3. Yes, 80C is hot enough. You only need to be about 10C hotter than the highest melting point of your solids.4. Get the right equipment to make your formulas.Hope that helps -
@paranoiagent - I also didn’t mean to sound condescending. I apologize if my comments came off that way.
It is very easy to get jaded as a formulator because we know most of what sells products is not the way that the formula performs but how the products are marketed. Certainly your product idea is worth pursuing and you shouldn’t let perceived negative comments here dissuade you from pursuing your dream.It is vitally important that you believe in your product if you want it to be successful. My comment was only explaining how hard it is for formulators to market cosmetics because we know the limits of what the products can actually do. On some level it is a negative thing for you to learn all the detailed science behind formulating & your product. It turns you highly skeptical of anything new and some people even get cynical. For an entrepreneur this is disastrous.You are doing the right thing. Have faith in your idea, find a chemist who can make it for you, and do your best to market it. Just avoid making any drug claims or doing anything else that can get you in trouble with the FDA, and you’ll have a great chance at being successful.In 1996, a cosmetic brand called Urban Decay was started by someone who was not in the cosmetic industry. A couple years ago it was sold to L’Oreal for over $150 million. No chemist in the cosmetic industry could have come up with this brand because it used exactly the same technology as everyone else. Technology does not matter nearly as much as marketing in this business.Again, I apologize if anything I said felt condescending. It wasn’t meant that way. -
1. You are probably using the wrong mixer to make your product. What kind of mixer are you using? You should use a center stir mixer.
2. 80C should be high enough. You should get a hot plate and use a water bath to make the batch though. -
Welcome to the forum Ruth!
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I think one of the reasons you don’t see more scientists with their own product line is that they have a hard time propagating marketing BS.
Most entrepreneurs are “true believers” in the specialness of their product or idea even though there is no good scientific reason to believe. -
Absolutely!
It’s terrible when marketing positions are put on a higher level of importance than product safety. -
Yes, Dimethicone can prevent water loss.
No, it is not absorbed into the skin. -
If you know anything about franchising that could be a good way to go. But then you just have to find people who want to get involved with your franchise.
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The Juice Beauty people (who are responsible for this product) have a history of making products that are not adequately preserved.
See this warning letter from the FDA. http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ComplianceEnforcement/WarningLetters/ucm446004.htm -
Thanks for the follow-up!
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That depends on how much water is introduced. Theoretically, yes you could dilute your product with enough water that the preservative is not effective enough. But in practice, if you pass a PET then you’ll probably be ok. People don’t introduce that much water into their formulas.
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Are you using a solubilizer like Polysorbate 20 for the insect repellant? I’m assuming the repellant is an oil.
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It was directed to both of you. I was genuinely curious since I’m not aware of any published scientific study to demonstrate an effective topical treatment for stretch marks.
I’m highly skeptical of technical data generated by a company selling a specific product. It’s helpful in terms of telling you what ingredients are worth trying for a certain application, but as far as proving whether something works, not so much. -
What convinces you that any of these have been proven to reduce stretch marks?
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This will depend on the project but here is the typical way it worked at the company for which I worked.
1. Ideation phase - This is when ideas for new products are generated. These are led by marketing and they take place about 1 year prior to when Walmart resets their shelves. Since over 40% of sales were done at Walmart all new product introductions were geared toward their schedule. This phase goes on for about 2 months and involves brainstorming sessions, market research, concept writing and focus groups. From an R&D perspective you will be involved in this to help generate ideas but primarily to put the breaks on excessive/impossible claims or ideas that marketing wants to launch. After this phase you’ll have about 8 months left for the remaining phases. This is because you need to have everything done and shipped to Walmart 2 months before they reset their shelves.2. Development phase - This is when R&D has to create formulas that match the concepts. Since Marketing will not want to pick a single concept you’ll often have to develop formulas for 2 or 3 different concepts. Typically, a new concept will launch with at least 2 or 3 SKUs and if it is a product like shampoo, there will also be a companion conditioner. So, you’ll need to develop up to 20 near finished formulations. Maybe you have a month to prototype but the reality is that it is much more efficient to take an existing formula and modify it to match the concept. Prototyping consists of figuring out the proper fragrances, figuring out the right colors, and choosing the claims ingredients that best support the story. There is no time to work on product performance.Picking the fragrances & choosing colors can take a month or more. Then you’ll have to do your preliminary stability tests. You’ll have a good idea after about a month whether the fragrances & colors you are testing will be stable. At this point you’ll have about 4 months left.During this time you’ll have to do a consumer test. You’re hoping that marketing has narrowed down which concept they will launch but they won’t. You may lose one concept but there is almost always 2 concepts in which you are “parallel pathing” because marketing won’t want to decide. This means double the work for you.While the consumer test is going on you can do the full stability test. However, it’s unlikely that you’ll have the finished packaging because that decision hasn’t been nailed down. So, you’ll have to use a stock package with a similar resin in your stability testing. It won’t be exactly what you will launch but it will be “close enough.”Consumer testing will take about 8 weeks and there will be no time to make many changes when you get the results. You hope you got it right the first time.3. Commercialization phase - At this point you should have everything ready including your formulas, specifications, claims testing, and stability testing. You will do a scale-up and observe the first production run. The final packaging should be ready so you’ll have to do an official stability test on the first production run. This will happen about 8 weeks before it has to get to Walmart. You hope there are no problems.So, that was the long answer. The short answer is that it takes 1 year to launch a product and you get about 1 month to do any real prototyping. -
@braveheart - thanks. I fixed the link.
This is really more of a legal question & better answered by a lawyer.If your intent for adding an ingredient is because you think it will change the biochemistry of the skin, whether you claim it does that or not should not matter because you intend it to do that. This is why you can’t put Hydroquinone in a product and get around following the OTC monograph.I think the “intent” of adding an ingredient also comes into play but others might disagree with that. -
If they work as described they would be considered illegal drugs here in the US.But if you make no specific claims about them working then people have used them as cosmetic ingredients in the US.But the FDA frowns on this sort of thing.
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That might have something to do with it.
P&G also recently announced the jobs that were being lost due to the upcoming deal with Coty. -
Here is a list of companies that make it. I’m not sure who you can buy it from in your area.
A & E Connock (Perfumery & Cosmetics) Ltd.Ashland Inc.Botanigenics, IncBrenntag Specialties Inc.Dow Corning CorporationGelest, Inc.Momentive Performance MaterialsShin-Etsu Chemical Co.Wacker Chemical CorporationWacker Chemie AG -
@hasanarsan - Welcome to the forum! You sound like an all-around formulator.
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Medical consultants aren’t infallible so unless the “evidence to the contrary” was introduced at trial, his opinion of a risk is in stark contrast with the scientific consensus.
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This ruling will be appealed and most likely overturned. It is completely junk science. If the ruling stands linking an ingredient to cancer well, all cosmetics are in trouble. Talc is natural so being natural won’t help. Anyone using talc in their line will be open to liability. And then I’m sure other ingredient suits will start to pile up parabens, DEA, propylene glycol, and anything else that a fear mongering group says is vaguely correlated with cancer.
You better have good insurance if you’re making cosmetics.Colin wrote a good piece on this subject.