OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Freeze Thaw stability testing won’t really tell you that.
It is an exaggerated test attempting to simulate what might happen to a product during shipping from warehouse to warehouse to store shelf.
If there is separation during the test that means it will probably happen at room temperature but it might not. -
You’ll need to be a bit more specific than that. What would demonstrate to you that they “work”? That is, what would be different about the skin if after using one of these they “work”?
“increase the effectiveness of serums” - This would be difficult to prove mostly because it’s difficult to prove that serums are effective at all.
We measure moisturization through a few methods include TEWL meter (transepidermal water loss), corneometer or other similar device. But the truth is the data you can collect in studies of this nature is not really that good in my opinion. It’s incredibly difficult to get reproducible results and even more difficult to show differences between different moisturizer formulas.
Serums (if they work) would take weeks of use and the changes would be subtle. Unless there was a substantial “boost” in performance after using a facial mask, you likely wouldn’t see any difference.
The way masks work is this. You put it on your face. You leave it on for a certain amount of time, and you remove it. Maybe it provides some moisturization or it exfoliates a bit but the reality is, it is simply an experience. It will have little lasting impact on your skin.
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@Syl - No, that product would not be in violation. They use two approved color additives including ultramarines and iron oxides. The Beetroot extract is a marketing ingredient and not the primary colorant for the product.
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Just so you know, using beetroot as a color additive for a cosmetic product sold in the US is a violation of regulations.
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We stored sodium hydroxide in glass bottles with a glass stopper and didn’t have this problem.
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1% would be the max
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It’s possible the sodium hydroxide is reacting with some compound in the plastic container. Normally, NaOH is stored in a glass bottle.
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I’m not sure those colors would be legal for cosmetics in the US.
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@MarkBroussard - Rolling dermal undulations?
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You will get better answers if you list all the ingredients in your formula.
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@Pharma - this being a US product, any claim to “fight sweating” can be interpreted as an antiperspirant which would make it an OTC drug.
I’d recommend sticking with fighting odor. -
@grapefruit22 - wouldn’t exposure of aquatic life to 100% non-nano, coated zinc oxide result in the death of said aquatic life?
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@Syl - I haven’t seen any research to demonstrate that Meroxyl doesn’t have the same problems as other sunscreen actives. Lack of data is not a point in favor of any ingredient.
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Not a direct answer to your question but for people who are curious about syneresis and the causes, you’ll find this helpful.
https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/research/literature-data/article/21834707/comparatively-speaking-hysteresis-vs-syneresisIs this a solid or semi solid product?
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Last chance to register! We start in 90 minutes.
Even if you can’t make it, if you register you will be able to see the replay.
Cosmetic Regulation Webinar -
When I worked on the VO5 shampoo line we had a couple SUKs that were pearlized. This was done using 1% EGMS and no suspending agent. We did not experience any settling on stability test. Maybe the same would work in this system but I don’t really know.
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I’m not sure I understand the reason for the question. Why isn’t the polyacylate being used as the thixotropic agent?
But between xanthan gum and cellulose, both could work but I think you’ll find cellulose easier to work with -
In this product they are using it as a poor preservative.
So, if it’s a product produced by a small company they are probably under the delusion that they want to avoid functional preservatives that sound scary. Instead they use the inferior, unreliable system with radish root ferment.
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I don’t have an answer for you beyond calling more companies to find someone to work with. This is a good resource. https://www.happi.com/contract-manufacturing-private-label-directory/personal-care-products/
But I will add that you might need to change your approach. Contract manufacturers set order minimums for a variety of reasons, but a primary reason is to weed out the unprofitable hobbiests. If you don’t have enough money to meet a minimum run, it’s a reasonable bet that you aren’t yet a serious business. Now, maybe you are, but CMs get contacted by people all the time who think they’ve got the next greatest brand idea. They order once & never again. Then the CM is stuck with excess chemical & packaging inventory. If this happens to them with a lot of clients, their warehouses would fill up & their business becomes much less profitable.You shouldn’t expect to be profitable in your first year or two.But you might also take the approach of getting customers to commit to buying your product before you make any product. Follow the Kickstarter model of raising enough funds before you make the product. At least that way you don’t have to get a loan to produce your first run & you’ll know you have interested consumers. -
We have a class….It’s based on a similar same class I’ve taught with the Society of Cosmetic Chemist since 2000.
https://chemistscorner.com/learn-more/practical-cosmetic-formulating/ -
What is the exact question?
What are the different opinions that you are wondering are correct or not?
Are you wondering if the performance of niacinamide is optimized at a certain pH? I don’t think that has ever been tested.
In my opinion, the effectiveness of niacinamide is so subtle that it’s unlikely anyone would be able to tell a difference no matter what pH it was delivered to the skin at.
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@grapefruit22 - Certainly, regulations that reduced the chances of someone getting injured by a homemade product could help. But the philosophy that rules in the US is that we want the minimum amount of rules so as not to inhibit innovation.
Plus, more rules means more enforcement which means a growth of a government agency. That costs money. Again, that’s not encouraged in the US.
And if there is not a huge, measurable problem, spending lots of money to prevent it may not really make sense.
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@grapefruit22 - “And I have another question. If the product contains not readily biodegradable ingredients, can it be said that the product is biodegradable? “
This is an interesting legal question for which I don’t know the answer. It looks like California (as usual) leads the way and is pretty restrictive. So, consumer companies probably shouldn’t make the claim if one of their products will make it on a store shelf in California.
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Of course, with all the research being done in this space, I’m sure there will be a point when technically everything will be considered “biodegradable”. For example, here is a bacteria that eats PET plastic. Since this is the case, PET bottles can be claimed to be biodegradable. Although unless they are exposed to that particular bacterium, it could take a long time to degrade.
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@GeorgeBenson - Of all the ingredients used in cosmetics, synthetic polymers (and natural polymers too) are likely the least worrisome in terms of ingredient safety. Not only have these ingredients gone through extensive safety testing, they are also too big to penetrate into the skin very deeply.
Companies talk about ingredients being absorbed into the skin but this is mostly marketing shenanigans. The vast majority of ingredients put on your skin do not travel into the skin any further than the stratum corneum (top layer). And the bigger a molecule is, the less likely it will be to penetrate deeper into the skin.
There is a principle in the pharmaceutical rule called the 500 Dalton rule. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/ That is if a molecule is larger than 500 Daltons, it will not penetrate the skin significantly and cannot get into the body. To give you a sense of size, a cross linked carbomer polymer that you might find in a skin lotion is 3-4 Billion Daltons.
Bottom line…no these polymers are not getting into your bloodstream.
Here’s some safety information on Carbomer.
https://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredients/carbomer/