Perry44
Forum Replies Created
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Without a sample of what you are smelling, it is difficult to say. The palmitate has a more diverse chemical makeup so it seems more likely it could smell worse. However, if the myristate has more of a molecule that causes the odor, I could see it smelling more.
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Yeah, you would need 20% ethanol if you want to use that to have a preservation effect. Your Aloe is a good source of food for microbes so contamination is the likely culprit.
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Water, Glycerin, Butylene Glycol is pretty cheap. There’s no rule they have to put anything in the formula more than say 0.01% so they can make it as cheap as they want. In truth, who would notice a difference?
If you tell a consumer there is niacinamide or peptides or any other active, they can’t tell a difference between 10% or 0.01% so how much you add doesn’t matter. Add less, product costs less. Simple
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Some possibilities…
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Niacinamide: This ingredient can undergo degradation under certain conditions, such as in the presence of heat, light, or certain pH levels, leading to color changes.
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Centella Asiatica Extract: Plant extracts often contain compounds that are sensitive to oxidation or light, which can lead to color changes over time.
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Phenonip (a preservative): It could interact with other components in the formula, potentially leading to color changes.
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Borage Seed Oil: Oils can oxidize over time, especially if not properly stabilized, leading to rancidity and color changes.
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Alpha Arbutin: This is a stability-sensitive ingredient that can degrade under certain conditions, potentially leading to discoloration.
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Tocopherol (Vitamin E): While it is an antioxidant, it can itself oxidize over time, especially in the presence of factors like light, air, and heat.
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I agree. It doesn’t make a difference.
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I don’t think there are any general rules as what you can do to a formula depends on the chemical composition of the blend you are using. I think these bases are designed to be finished formulas to which you just add a little more water. You are also able to add small amounts of extracts for marketing purposes. They are not meant to be used for significant modifications.
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You don’t use a homogenizer with Carbomer. You don’t want to use Sodium Hydroxide as the sodium can interfere with the working of the carbomer. You need to use something like Triethanolamine or AMP to neutralize the carbomer.
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When we have this problem in industry we just use a different fragrance. Well, what we actually do is to tell the fragrance supplier that the odor is not “blooming” well enough and that they need to make adjustments so it is compatible with our formulation. They do this and the problem is fixed.
But if you don’t have that kind of power over a fragrance house, the only solution is to use fragrances that don’t have this problem.
It’s just a reality that some fragrances don’t work in some systems.
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What you have heard is incorrect. Herbal products are not better for skin or hair. They are not safer. They do not work better. They are not even more environmentally friendly. They often contain ingredients that actually cause irritation to human skin (e.g. poison ivy).
Foaming problems are fixed with surfactants. Odor problems are fixed with fragrances.
There are numerous entities on the Internet that benefit from tricking people into falling for the natural fallacy. Don’t fall for this trickery.
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I don’t think the programs are good enough to replace chemists quite yet but it’s not too far away. We’ll still need people to put formulas together though. AI can’t make a batch & robotics is much farther away. AI is not yet good enough to make a formula that you can go right to production
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In truth, whether you have the vitamin E in the formula or not, you are unlikely to notice any difference. I agree with your Chief Scientist, you don’t need any more than 1%.
And putting 2.5% Vitamin C seems like a waste to me also. That is a lot of material and it is simply going to oxidize when it is sitting on the store shelf. You will get no therapeutic benefit from it.
I answer this question as a scientist and I realize that as a product marketer, you might see things differently. In my opinion, Vitamin E & C are simply marketing ingredients that have little noticeable effect when delivered from topical cosmetic products. None of the evidence I’ve seen has convinced me otherwise.
I do realize that others might disagree. What evidence convinces you that you need such high levels of these ingredients in the formula?
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There are a number of things that could be happening. Without knowing the amounts of ingredients it’s hard to give specific, helpful advice.
But in general…
1. Your preservative system has salts in it which can destabilize emulsions. You don’t have a stabilizer like Xanthan Gum so the micelles might be separating more quickly.
2. You didn’t mention what oils you’re using but the emulsion system you have might not be good enough. Try including also some Glyceryl Stearate maybe? Like I said, it’s hard to know without knowing the oils you’re using.
If it were me, I’d get rid of the preservative system you’re using and use parabens instead. They are much less likely to cause stability problems.
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The term “oil” is pretty flexible in the cosmetic industry, at least when it comes to marketing language. If we want to get technical Jojoba Oil isn’t really an oil (it’s a liquid wax) but the industry is fine with calling it an oil. I’d say pretty much anything that is not soluble in water might be referred to as an oil in advertising even though, scientifically speaking, it wouldn’t be considered an oil.
There was a lawsuit going around claiming just that. Saying that anything that isn’t soluble in water is an oil. Of course, it was dismissed so from a legal standpoint just being insoluble in water is not enough to consider something an oil. https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/regulations/claims-labeling/news/22262614/oilfree-cosmetics-suit-vs-target-dismissed-mostly
cosmeticsandtoiletries.com
'Oil-free' Cosmetics Suit vs. Target Dismissed, Mostly
According to a report by Law360, a proposed class action suit claiming retailer Target misled consumers over claims of 'oil-free' cosmetics was dismissed in 12 of 13 instances by an Illinois federal judge.
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I agree with @PhilGeis Stability testing should be done in the final packaging. If you are not using air tight packages with your consumer, the test would be almost meaningless.
We used simple 4 or 8 ounce glass jars with twist on caps. They weren’t “air tight” but they were good enough for stability testing. However, we also ran every formula in the package that they were going to be sold in. These were the samples that we used when deciding whether the product was stable or not.
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I suppose you could put Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride in it or even Polyquat 7 or 10. But the more important question is, what ingredients do your consumers find compelling? If an ingredient is for claims purposes, your consumers need to know the ingredient to be impressed with the claims.
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Well, that depends on the quality of the tap water. You might be able to use it, but you might not be able to use it.
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She’s likely in an affiliate program for them. Gotta make money somehow I guess.
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Fair enough. I think your experience would not be that of a typical consumer.
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Yeah those things annoy me too. Trying to get the publisher to fix it
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The problem is, AI is creating the spam and able to get past captcha
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Working on it! I’ve deleted all I can find this far
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Yeah, I don’t agree either. There really aren’t cosmetic chemists working in industry who don’t also have to do formulating (unless they have been promoted to manager and have technicians that work for them).
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Yes. We always made batches to put stability samples up in both glass and the final packaging. It may have been over-kill but it’s generally helpful to know whether a formula is stable without interference from the packaging.
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The company I worked for regularly used city tap water for batches but it was usually filtered. But in the lab we always used deionized water.
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You might be increasing the price by including both polymeric and standard emulsifiers. However, if a formula is stable you generally don’t want to mess with it. Also, if they ask you for a reduced cost version, then you can experiment to get the most optimized formulas. Until then, I’d just leave it alone.