Perry44
Forum Replies Created
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For price and performance, Glycerin wins.
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Looks like they were mostly microbial contamination problems. Don’t really expect that from big companies like L’Oreal but it can happen to anyone I guess.
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Without a list of all the ingredients in your formula, it is difficult to give you any answer.
My blind guess is that your product is contaminated with bacteria.
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No, those ingredients should work fine at lower pHs
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We could be of more help if you list all the ingredients in the formula. It’s probably some kind of oxidation reaction.
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Haven’t used it myself but it’s an alpha hydroxy acid and yes, they claim it is an antibacterial.
I suppose based on papers like these. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33402087/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Antimicrobial Properties of Mandelic Acid, Gallic Acid and their Derivatives - PubMed
MA and GA present an excellent health-promoting tool and are valuable starting materials for the design of new compounds such as metal complexes with alkali, or alkali earth metals. The lipophilic, antimicrobial, and pro-oxidative properties act synergistically, supporting the pharmacological … Continue reading
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The ends of your hair are more damaged than up the fiber closer to the root. The frizz happens there because the fiber absorbs water unequally on its surface. Frizz is caused over time because it just takes time for your hair to absorb or lose moisture from/to the air.
Two suggestions.
1. Use a conditioner. Shampoos are not very good at conditioning hair (even two and one formulas). PQ10 and PQ7 are ok, but they are nothing compared to a proper conditioner with cationic surfactants.
2. Add a silicone. If you don’t want to use a conditioner, silicones are needed to coat the ends of the hair, prevent moisture absorption, and thus inhibit frizz.
No, the pH of your formula isn’t really relevant, although it should be more like pH 5.0. Use Citric acid to adjust it down.
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On the claims…
“Instant hair transformation in 8 seconds” - this can mean anything so it doesn’t mean much. Just getting your hair wet instantly transforms it.
“…silkier, shinier, healthier looking hair” - again these are subjective claims that could be supported by any product.
“no silicones…etc.” - just claims about the formula not the benefits.
The ingredients providing the most benefit are Cetrimonium Chloride and Behentrimonium Chloride.
A substitute for Myristyl Alcohol would be Cetyl Alcohol.
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Without a sample of what you are smelling, it is difficult to say. The palmitate has a more diverse chemical makeup so it seems more likely it could smell worse. However, if the myristate has more of a molecule that causes the odor, I could see it smelling more.
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Yeah, you would need 20% ethanol if you want to use that to have a preservation effect. Your Aloe is a good source of food for microbes so contamination is the likely culprit.
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Water, Glycerin, Butylene Glycol is pretty cheap. There’s no rule they have to put anything in the formula more than say 0.01% so they can make it as cheap as they want. In truth, who would notice a difference?
If you tell a consumer there is niacinamide or peptides or any other active, they can’t tell a difference between 10% or 0.01% so how much you add doesn’t matter. Add less, product costs less. Simple
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Some possibilities…
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Niacinamide: This ingredient can undergo degradation under certain conditions, such as in the presence of heat, light, or certain pH levels, leading to color changes.
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Centella Asiatica Extract: Plant extracts often contain compounds that are sensitive to oxidation or light, which can lead to color changes over time.
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Phenonip (a preservative): It could interact with other components in the formula, potentially leading to color changes.
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Borage Seed Oil: Oils can oxidize over time, especially if not properly stabilized, leading to rancidity and color changes.
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Alpha Arbutin: This is a stability-sensitive ingredient that can degrade under certain conditions, potentially leading to discoloration.
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Tocopherol (Vitamin E): While it is an antioxidant, it can itself oxidize over time, especially in the presence of factors like light, air, and heat.
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I agree. It doesn’t make a difference.
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I don’t think there are any general rules as what you can do to a formula depends on the chemical composition of the blend you are using. I think these bases are designed to be finished formulas to which you just add a little more water. You are also able to add small amounts of extracts for marketing purposes. They are not meant to be used for significant modifications.
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You don’t use a homogenizer with Carbomer. You don’t want to use Sodium Hydroxide as the sodium can interfere with the working of the carbomer. You need to use something like Triethanolamine or AMP to neutralize the carbomer.
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When we have this problem in industry we just use a different fragrance. Well, what we actually do is to tell the fragrance supplier that the odor is not “blooming” well enough and that they need to make adjustments so it is compatible with our formulation. They do this and the problem is fixed.
But if you don’t have that kind of power over a fragrance house, the only solution is to use fragrances that don’t have this problem.
It’s just a reality that some fragrances don’t work in some systems.
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What you have heard is incorrect. Herbal products are not better for skin or hair. They are not safer. They do not work better. They are not even more environmentally friendly. They often contain ingredients that actually cause irritation to human skin (e.g. poison ivy).
Foaming problems are fixed with surfactants. Odor problems are fixed with fragrances.
There are numerous entities on the Internet that benefit from tricking people into falling for the natural fallacy. Don’t fall for this trickery.
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See what @fareloz said
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Well, there are no obvious answers. However, I’d suggest you do a simple knock-out experiment to isolate which ingredient might be causing the problem. A knock-out experiment would simply be a series of batches each of which is missing one ingredient. You would replace the missing volume with water. So, if your batch normally calls for 1% HA, you would add 1% extra water instead. Then see which batch turns pink.
It could be lots of things. Metal ions in your water, oxidation of ingredients, some unknown contamination in your ingredients, etc.
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Yeah, most people in the US are buying lotions from Olay, Suave, Neutrogena, etc. Online sales is a big piece but in-store sales still represent a much greater piece of sales.
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I don’t have better advice than what @PhilGeis has suggested. He is an industry expert in preservation & his advice is most reliable on the topic of anyone on this forum.
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If you are selling a product, you must declare the LOI on the package anyway.
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Yeah, on paper your formula looks fine. You don’t mention the conditioner pH, but it should be lower to work better (around pH 4).
Is there some product on the market that works well for your frizz?
I ask because when hair is damaged, even the best rinse-out conditioners can’t do much. You might have to go to a leave-in conditioner. -
She’s likely in an affiliate program for them. Gotta make money somehow I guess.
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Fair enough. I think your experience would not be that of a typical consumer.