[PeiHoong]

@David @Doreen81 that’s my question….how can a formula with water and oil works without emulsifier…

[PeiHoong]

I have tried to use beeswax to stabilize the system but there is still some oil leakage….

Btw, I found out that there are some products which actually use cold process in liquid lipstick, for example: Bourjois Rouge Edition Velvet (which is my benchmark). The link attached shows it’s LOI
http://www.cosdna.com/eng/cosmetic_95ea135260.html

Just wonder if the factors below influence the stability of liquid lipstick:
1. Viscosity of dimethicone used. Is it better for me to use higher viscosity (~350cst) dimethicone? 
2. Grade of Fumed silica? For silicone sytem, should i used hydrophilic grade or hydrophobic grade? (Theoritically should be hydrophilic grade as silicone is non polar, am I right?)

[PeiHoong]

@Bobzchemist I see, thank you very much for your advice. I will try with hot process then. Thank you! 

[PeiHoong]

@Bobzchemist  yes, i’m using both bentonite and fumed silica under high shear but not waxes as i would like to make it cold process. However, there is still some oil(?) leaked out…

[PeiHoong]

@Belassi
 thank you for your explanation. I will try again in lab. Thank you

[PeiHoong]

Thank you for your explanation, @Belassi @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ

May I know the procedure then? Is that mean that I first need to make a solid soap then only I add in water phase?  Regarding the pH, is that mean that I just need to calculate the SAP value and add in NaOH without considering the final pH? 

Thank you in advance for answering my doubt. Appreciate~

[PeiHoong]

@Chemist79  Hi, I’ve tried according to your advice and the product has no more sweating!  I will continue to observe its stability! Thank you for your useful advice! 

[PeiHoong]

Oppss…i knew it. Tween 20 can only solubilize oil in water but not silicone. My mistake, sorry about it. 

[PeiHoong]

should it be premixed 1% of dimethicone in 2% of tween 80 then only added into the water?

[PeiHoong]

@johnb  Thank you for your kind guidance and I will try it again in the lab. 

@Bobzchemist I’m sorry that if my question seem so nonsense to you. I thought that this forum could help many new formulation chemists like me who has no background but passionate in this field. Of course i wish to attend training and courses to have better understanding on what I’m doing now but since the time has not came yet, I wish to learn from my mistake and confusion which can only be done by hands on experiment. I didn’t know that it would cause trouble to you. I’m really sorry about that. 

[PeiHoong]

@johnb thank you so much for your information!!! besides bentone gel, i’m thinking to maybe add in veegum ultra or aerosil as my suspending agent as there is no dispersed bentone in my company. 

[PeiHoong]

@johnb  I see, so i would need to try to replace Silnos to fumed silica or add in other suspending agent, is that right? 

[PeiHoong]

@Bobzchemist I’m using Silnos 230 silica, which its average particle diameter is around 2-4 microns. So I think it should not be a problem, right?

@johnb From your comment, is that mean that i need to introduce suspending agent? I thought binder could serve the same purpose, am I wrong? If so, may I know the use of binder? Is it used to bind only different kind of powder but does not bind oil and powder? 

Sorry for asking a lot. Thank you.  

[PeiHoong]

Please forgive that I might not be able to reveal the whole formulation, but here are the ingredients that I used: diethylhexyl adipate, hydrogenated polyisobutene, dimethicone, isohexadecane, polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate, octyldodecyl stearoyl stearate, octyldodecanol, jojoba wax PEG-120 ester, castor oil,  chlorphenesin, phenoxyethanol, titanium dioxide, talc, silica, nylon-12, mica, zinc oxide, pigment, polyethylene, candelilla wax, microcrystalline wax,cetyl ester.  

@Bobzchemist  I am a newbie to this industry without any cosmetic background but only chemistry background. This is the task assigned by superior, so I have no choice to reject…therefore, I wish to gain some knowledge from my mistake…

Thank you. 

[PeiHoong]

erm…it is something published but I’ve made some changes. So I’m wondering is it the oil that i used is not compatible…

[PeiHoong]

yea, thanks all for the advice and i will try to revise the formulation and bentone handling method. 

Thank you very much!!

[PeiHoong]

@Bill_Toge
Yes, it is a w/si systm. here is my procedure: 
1. Phase A is heated to 45’C and then let it cool to room temperature. 
2. Phase B AND C are premixed and homogenized for 20 minutes. 
3. Phase A is added to the mixture while homogenizing.
4. Phase D is premixed and added little by little into the mixture until a w/si is formed.  

Thank you 

[PeiHoong]

@johnb  sorry for that, and here is my formulation: 

Trade Name	Quantity        (%)
PHASE A
LIQUID OIL UV FILTER	11.000
POWDER UV FILTER	1.550
PHASE B
DOW CORNING ES-5612 FORMULATION AID	0.500
PHENOXYETHANOL	0.500
BASE 1.0. YELLOW 3AS
BASE 1.0. RED 3AS
BASE 1.0. BLACK 3AS
DOW CORNING ES-5300 FORMULATION AID	1.700
PHASE C
DC 345 FLUID	13.500
BENTONE 38V	0.300
TIO2
PHASE D
DI WATER	46.030
BUTYLENE GLYCOL 1,3	13.000
Xanthum Gum	0.200
SODIUM CHLORIDE	1.000
ALLANTOIN	0.300
MICROCARE SB	0.600
PHASE E
VITAMIN E ACETATE	0.200
Fragrance	0.050
	100.000

[PeiHoong]

Thank you guys, attached here is my formulation for your reference. Please advise if I should change or take away any problematic ingredients. Thank you very much!