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Tagged: formulating, foundation, separation
Stick FoundationPosted by PeiHoong on April 11, 2017 at 7:53 am
Hi, currently I’m trying to make stick foundation and this is my first time to do it. I am facing a problem and hope somebody can guide me on this.
Problem: when I try to mix the pigment into the melted wax and oil phase, there appears a layer of oil (seems like oil is separated from the pigment) after the pigment is introduced. I wonder is it due to my pouring method or the formula is not stable. Wish someone can advise me on this….Thank you very much.Bobzchemist replied 6 years, 1 month ago 3 Members · 16 Replies
johnbMemberApril 11, 2017 at 8:15 am
Is this formula your own creation or is it something published?
Either way, please let us know what it is.
PeiHoongMemberApril 11, 2017 at 8:42 am
erm…it is something published but I’ve made some changes. So I’m wondering is it the oil that i used is not compatible…
johnbMemberApril 11, 2017 at 9:01 am
Sorry, but we can’t help you without more information regarding the formula/components of the product and details of the changes you have made.
BobzchemistMemberApril 11, 2017 at 2:41 pm
As johnb says,we need the formula before we can give any substantial advice. I’d be particularly interested in what pigment suspending agent you are using.
I’ll also point out something I frequently tell beginners. NEVER make even the slightest changes to a published formula until you are sure that you can make it succesfully yourself as written. Not all published formulas work well. Some don’t work at all. If you make changes before you even start, you can never know what’s going wrong.
PeiHoongMemberApril 12, 2017 at 12:43 am
Please forgive that I might not be able to reveal the whole formulation, but here are the ingredients that I used: diethylhexyl adipate, hydrogenated polyisobutene, dimethicone, isohexadecane, polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate, octyldodecyl stearoyl stearate, octyldodecanol, jojoba wax PEG-120 ester, castor oil, chlorphenesin, phenoxyethanol, titanium dioxide, talc, silica, nylon-12, mica, zinc oxide, pigment, polyethylene, candelilla wax, microcrystalline wax,cetyl ester.
@Bobzchemist I am a newbie to this industry without any cosmetic background but only chemistry background. This is the task assigned by superior, so I have no choice to reject…therefore, I wish to gain some knowledge from my mistake…
johnbMemberApril 12, 2017 at 6:56 am
The list you gave is a crude INCI LOI which is intended for consumer
information to enable them to avoid components that they may object to
(for a number reasons). These lists do help others in determining the
gross ingredient content but are quite useless in revealing detail -
this is where experience counts and very often a chemistry background
may be of little use.
We are trying to help but we can do little
unless you are more open about the details. Nobody is trying to steal
any trade secrets from you as these days, trade secrets hardly exist and
if they do, they don’t remain secrets for very long.
From the little you have revealed, what type of silica are you using?
Silica as used in cosmetics can vary from 1mm+ particles to “fumed silica” (Aerosil/Cabosil) where the particle size is extremely small and it can act as a suspending agent for pigments. Your revealed ingredient list lacks any other obvious suspending/stabilising agent and this may well account for the problems you are experiencing.
BobzchemistMemberApril 12, 2017 at 2:13 pm
Also - the smaller the particle size of your pigments/powders, the easier they are to suspend. That’s probably the first thing I’d check in this situation (in addition to the fumed silica John suggested) - if you’re not grinding your pigments down to at least below 4 microns, you’re going to have trouble.
PeiHoongMemberApril 13, 2017 at 7:09 am
@Bobzchemist I’m using Silnos 230 silica, which its average particle diameter is around 2-4 microns. So I think it should not be a problem, right?
@johnb From your comment, is that mean that i need to introduce suspending agent? I thought binder could serve the same purpose, am I wrong? If so, may I know the use of binder? Is it used to bind only different kind of powder but does not bind oil and powder?
Sorry for asking a lot. Thank you.
johnbMemberApril 13, 2017 at 7:21 am
Silnos silicas are in the form of micro-sized spheres - a completely different physical form to that of the fumed silica that I mentioned above. I doubt it would have any real effect as a suspending agent.
A binder is to improve the compatibility and ease the mixing of the powder and oil components. Binders do not necessarily assist in suspending power
johnbMemberApril 13, 2017 at 8:15 am
The Silnos is not acting as a suspending agent so, yes, it does need replacing. Other suspending agents useful for this type of product are Bentone Gels http://elementis-specialties.com/esweb/esweb.nsf/pages/cosmetics
Another point that should be made is the technique used for pouring the mixture into the stick mould or container. The temperature must be carefully controlled at just above the melting point of the mixture so that it sets very quickly after pouring but remain in a liquid state for sufficient time to pour and set evenly.
johnbMemberApril 13, 2017 at 10:25 am
Please be aware that Veegum is for aqueous systems.
Check that the Aerosil grade is suitable for your oil mix.
BobzchemistMemberApril 13, 2017 at 3:10 pm
You seem to be confusing advice given for pressed powder systems, and for aqueous systems, with advice for hot pour systems, all of which tells me that you are in way, way over your head. Then I see that you are not even able to bring new raw materials into your company to formulate with. This will not end well. In fact, this is very likely to fail in a major way.
I’d very strongly suggest that you get out in front of this impending failure, and tell your supervisor that you will need lots of advice from an expert in formulating hot-pour cosmetics in order to complete the project assigned to you. Just having a chemistry degree is no substitute for the years of additional training required to be a cosmetic chemist.
We will not be able to give you the level of help you need for free - you’re going to need to pay a consultant in order to have any hope of finishing your project by the end of the year.
PeiHoongMemberApril 17, 2017 at 1:05 am
@johnb Thank you for your kind guidance and I will try it again in the lab.
@Bobzchemist I’m sorry that if my question seem so nonsense to you. I thought that this forum could help many new formulation chemists like me who has no background but passionate in this field. Of course i wish to attend training and courses to have better understanding on what I’m doing now but since the time has not came yet, I wish to learn from my mistake and confusion which can only be done by hands on experiment. I didn’t know that it would cause trouble to you. I’m really sorry about that.
BobzchemistMemberApril 17, 2017 at 2:24 am
@PeiHoong, your question doesn’t seem like nonsense, but you are confused and not familiar with the types of products and formulations. You didn’t cause me any trouble, and I’m not trying to cause you any trouble.
I am, however, trying to save your job. If my boss had assigned a project to me like this, I’d get fired if I wasn’t able to come up with results within a reasonable time frame. We can help guide you to the information and experiments you’ll need, but it will take a very long time. If your boss needs results quickly, you will be better off telling him you need help right away, rather than letting him discover that 6 or 8 months from now.