[Paprik]

A tip: Get rid of the Sodium PCA. It’s expensive for a wash-off product. You can use a bit of Glycerin instead. 

[Paprik]

How did you measure pH of an oil? pH for oils is irrelevant.

You adjust pH of the formula once you manufactured it. The formula must contain water, otherwise, again, it’s irrelevant. 

[Paprik]

Perry said:

@Paprik - I don’t think mixing fragrances is a particularly good idea. It’s twice as challenging to get a matching scent from batch to batch. 

Great, thanks for confirming it  

[Paprik]

I never thought you could (should) mix fragrances. Never thought it’s a good idea. But might give it a try  
I’m struggling with a lot of fragrances. I don’t like them, but for some products they are kind of necessary. 

[Paprik]

Instability. In W/O emulsion you need to stabilise the water there, therefore you need oil compatible rheology modifier, so it prevents the water droplets from traveling and clumping together. 

[Paprik]

Yeah, stick to 0.5% maximum of Allantoin. This will work pretty good. No point having more of it. Add that to water phase. 
I would not say Niacinamide is pH sensitive. It works great between 3.5 - 7.5 (If I remember correctly). Which you should formulate within this range anyway. Add that in cool down phase though, it is stable in higher temperatures, but you don’t want to accidentally ruin it when you overheat your phase. 

I’m missing an antioxidant for your lipid. Grapeseed oil gets oxidised pretty easily. Also, you are mixing lipids with different polarity. So you double check stability. 

Your preservative is not natural whatsoever (Euxyl PE 9010). It may look more natural if compare with parabens, but it is not. It is pretty robust preservative, however only PET would give you your answer. To me however, it should be fine. 
Add chelating agent to boost it and get the pH close to 4.8.

Regarding protein, check with your supplier. So far I worked with heat stable proteins, so I used them in water phase. 

Hope that helps, happy formulating.

[Paprik]

It also depends on what surfactant you are using.
If you’re using sulphates, they are typically very strong and will solubilise the fragrance. Maybe isethionates too. The rest won’t do that job effectivelly. 

Also depends on the amount of fragrance you’re trying to incorporate. 

[Paprik]

Lowering the overall HLB value by adding low HLB emulsifier. As @Abdullah mentioned. 2-3% should help, you also build some viscosity to the product. 
Never tried it with liquid emulsifier. Could work too? 

[Paprik]

Perry said:

@Paprik - what convinces you that Sodium PCA is superior to glycerine as a humectant?

Frankly, nothing. It’s just from my IPCS study texts. I kind of believe that glycerin is the best humectant. Especially compering the prices. 
But also believe Na PCA is great. And not feeling tacky when used in higher percentages. 

[Paprik]

Is it a wash off or leave on product? 
If it’s leave on, the formula is … not good. 
You are basically putting heavy oil into your hair. What’s gonna happen? The hair will become greasy and heavy. 

The majority of your product should be volatiles lipids.
Up to 100% volatile lipid
Up to 20% non-volatile lipid
You can use some silicone gum or polymer if viscosity is desired. 
Oil soluble actives can be also added.

Try to formulate without fragrance first. Or add oils slowly and see when it becomes opaque. Some of your oils can be contaminated or so. 

[Paprik]

Graillotion said:

Paprik 

Best alternative to Zinc PCA? … Sodium PCA Apparently there is synergistic effect when used with Sodium Hyaluronate/Hyaluronic acid.

Mixing Sodium PCA with HA provides what kind of synergy?  Humectancy? Other?  I am curious.  I use both, but not always in the same formula.

Yeah, I guess in humectancy. This is from my book from IPCS

Sodium PCA - Highest performing of all humectants; high end cosmeceutical products (expensive); synergistic effect with sodium hyaluronate. 

I will try to google it also, just to check it out. Might be interesting aye? 

[Paprik]

I haven’t seen any in-vivo efficacy data to prove that 10% would be more beneficial than 5%. Remember - The more active, the bigger risk for irritation. Also the cost of the product goes up.
The Ordinary has 10% B3, but again, why? I think 5% should be the top. 
Second remember - More does not need better. Some actives work at super low concentrations. 

Best alternative to Zinc PCA? … Sodium PCA Apparently there is synergistic effect when used with Sodium Hyaluronate/Hyaluronic acid.

[Paprik]

Anti-irritants, such as Allantoin.

[Paprik]

@Perry, would you know what would be sufficient input of Panthenol to have any benefits? I really thought that 5% would do a lot. 

[Paprik]

Niacinamide handles lower pH. (3.5 - 7.5)

[Paprik]

Yes, you can.

EDTA (or chelating agents) should not be used only when cationic emulsifier is used. 
The charge from Cocamidopropyl betaine (below pH7) is nothing to compare to cationic emulsifiers. Same goes for Polyquats, guar derivatives … 

[Paprik]

Perfectly said @Graillotion. 

To put it also in another way, imagine those things
Gum, polymer = net
Emulsifier = trap

So emulsifier traps all the oil droplets and prevents them from clumping back together. Where the gum net prevents those emulsified droplets from moving. So they stay put -> harder for them to clump again. This means you get the best stability. Some rheology modifiers (gum, polymers) are better, some worse. Some can stabilize bigger particles, some won’t stabilize those at all. 

So your formula should look similar to this for O/W emulsion:
Water
Humectant - preferably
Water compatible rheology modifier
Lipid
High HLB non-ionic emulsifier (preferable blend for better packing)
(Also good to have a little bit of anionic emulsifier, but if you’re using salt, no point)
Antioxidant (if required)
Chelating agent - preferably
Preservative
+ added extras, such as extracts, fragrance, actives etc … 

[Paprik]

I wanted to post this yesterday, but ran out of time. @ketchito already mentioned that. EU is more “relaxed”, haha. 

[Paprik]

You should not use 3 rheology modifiers. They will only “ball” on the skin and feel terrible. You can stick to Sepimax Zen, this one is electrolyte resistant. However, it does take time to properly hydrate. So method is crucial - You would add that to a water with preservative and stir properly. It will look clumpy. Leave it overnight (or several hours) to properly swell. The next day you can mix it and start you process. Low shear only.
(Other gums are ok with high shear)

You are also missing antioxidant. Grapeseed oil does easily oxidise, so your cream would not last long time. 

Hope that helps  

[Paprik]

Thanks guys. For all comments. Appreciated.  

The main problem is that she is spreading this incorrect information and confuses people. That’s what drives me crazy. People are asking for help and they get lies. 

[Paprik]

Thank you guys. Thanks for you. I was hoping @perry would answer, as you live in US right? And you have the most experiences. 

I seriously have no much energy left trying to convince people, when they are so stubborn. 

May I have one more question? About this, I’m not sure at all. 
If the product is named “Aloe Vera Soap”, does it need to contain certain amount of Aloe or is it also not regulated? 

[Paprik]

It depends.
Yes, it can if you’re formulating for very dry or sensitive skin. It will not clean as good as anionic surfactant, so if you’re formulating for oily skin type, that won’t be suitable. 

You need to give it a try and see how it goes.

Most of CAPB are coming as 30% dilution, so if you’ll use 10% of the raw material, you’ll get 3% of the actual CAPB. 

[Paprik]

Yeah, try to limit the air you introduce into the formula.
You need to make enough product to keep the head (of the homogenizer) under the surface so it does not suck air into the product. 

If you have some fish eyes, you will get rid of them when you homogenize your emulsion.

[Paprik]

Thanks @Perry. 

[Paprik]

Funny, I was exploring this yesterday for my assessment. 
In case you would get some really detailed info -> 

https://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out121_en.pdf