Paprik
Forum Replies Created
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Yeah, tetrasodium glutamate diacetate is a good chelator. And @MarkBroussard uses it. Typical usage rate is 0.2 to 0.3%.
But as mentioned by Phil, NaEDTA’s are good option too.
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I think above 1000 kDa it is considered high molecular, but again, as Abdullah said, the higher the better (for gelling). I would say 1% is a decent (high) input and it probably does form a thicker layer that eventually dries thus the tightening.
Try to source higher MW and see how it goes.Keep in mind, we do not know what is “thick enough” for you.
You are maybe expecting too much from it? -
You dilute them by adding them into the water.
So you are going to use 14.3% of lactic acid to get 10% solution and 4.05% Glycolic acid to get 4% solution. -
Well, that depends. In hair masks for very dry and damaged hair it is really beneficial. As it draws moisture to the porous and damaged/dry hair. Same as conditioner (it also prevents drying of the product), but it helps retain some of the moisture so the hair don’t get super dry after - Plus it fights frizziness.
In my (humble) opinion, it is good to have a good humectant in hair products.
And @Camel, yeah, 2% should be fine. Try it out and see.
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Lol @ketchito, I am reading this at little bit after 6 am and … it is a deep thought
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I guess the water lifts hair cuticles, therefore the product can “get in” easier.
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1. Remove HEC and use cationic guar (hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride).
+ Add high HLB non-ionic emulsifier. It will build viscosity and improve wash off.
2. I think 1-2% is fine.
3. Yep, Glycerin is beneficial. Use Glycerin instead of Propanediol. It’s way cheaper and I dare to say way more effective. -
Yeah, I am with @ketchito.
Polysorbates are most like superfatting agents/solubilizers. So share the purpose of the product and we can help you.None of those are salt responsive, so they won’t think with salt. You will need a gum/polymer to thicken it. (HEC did not work in my surfactants at all. Always separated.)
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Thanks for the update Abdullah
good to hear! -
It looks like foam to me too.
Heat it to 35 - 40°C. As you would do your stability testing. -
I probably started as maximalist too. I remember buying my first CoQ10 and some proteins and Niacinamide and other stuff and thinking everything together will create the ultimate serum/cream. It turned into ugly snot and I soon realized the less is usually better.
At the moment, I am minimalist with extras. Have formula with necessary ingredients and only improving it by a hero ingredient/s and marketing ingredient. Although I do feel like I am cheating my customers. So I am not really crazy about my product story. And thanks to you Perry, many ingredients (Panthenol etc) I am using at low inputs and letting other (well proven) ingredients work the wonders
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If you are using cationic system, 4.0 - 4.5 is usually the best range to go. And it is safe.
And all cosmetic ingredients that are allowed in cosmetics products are considered safe if used within their regulatory limits and used as meant to.
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Yep, I am with the boys. Ingredients differ significantly.
That is also why you should use Trade names (and/or supplier’s name) on your formula. So manufacture gets the exact material you have prepared your samples with. -
Yep, try it.
I would measure the pH after adding the aloe juice. The one I had was really acidic and brought my pH to around 4. Try to have it close to neutral before adding cationic guar gum, so it has time to be properly dispersed in the water phase. This is my thinking.Try it and let us know.
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It really depends what you want the toner to do.
If it’s for hydration, you could use hyaluronic acid. If it’s for brightening, use the mentioned Niacinamide. If it’s for exfoliation, you could use some AHA … It really depends.Typical usage of humectants is 1 - 10%. But again, it depends.
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Ok, this changes situation. You only said Guar gum. This is non-ionic gum.
Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride is cationic guar derivative. And there’s a big difference.
So, Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride does not need to be slurried. It goes straight into the water. You only need to acidify the water so it hydrates.
But, add that at the end. The gum should hydrate with all water available from the formula. As Decyl Glucoside is (usually) 50-52% active, the rest is water. CAPB is also 68-70% water .. I don’t think you add too much of it.So I think what happened is, you let the gum swell with some water and after you add some extra, which was not “grabbed” by the gum. If that makes sense. So that causes the separation.
Regarding the oils, you need to solubilize them first. So you have to premix your lipids with solubilizer separately until homogenous and after slowly add to water phase in small increments and wait until water clears.
Hope it makes sense? Let me know if not
Good luck! -
Why are you adding the guar gum anyway?
Try it without, only with Crothix and see how it goes.I don’t see a problem if you really premix it well with glycerin and add that to a water and slightly acidify it. . And let it hydrate for some time. Unless it does something bad with the Crothix.
Also, a note, reduce Panthenol input to 0.01%. It won’t have any benefits anyway and it is wasting your money. Your main humectant would be the glycerin. It is mainly a marketing ingredient and it will be washed away.
One more note, I am not sure if you have enough solubilize for your lipids. Castor oil is hard to solubilize and you have also 0.5% of fragrance which is basically free and may cause stability issues.
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Ok guys, let’s get this straight as I see some misinformation.
If you are using an ingredient as a buffer, doesn’t matter if it’s Lactic acid, Sodium hydroxide and similar, the ingredient actually dissociate into its ions. For example, for sodium hydroxide it’s sodium ion (Na+) and hydroxyl ion (OH-). Therefore you do not get any “benefits/risks” from it. So if you are lowering pH with lactic acid, you will not have enough free (“full”) acid to work as an active ingredient. However it does look better in the label.
Your original formula is basically slightly hydrating good smelling water.
Not sure what is your marketing story, but I don’t think you will fulfill it and customer won’t be happy with the product as it won’t do anything.Glycerin can and will feel tacky, even at 5% especially if it’s the “only” ingredient in your product. Water will evaporate and leave only the glycerin.
(it is a different story for emulsions)My suggestion -
Keep the water, hydrosol if happy and in budget allows, keep the glycerin at 1% and add some other non-tacky humectant (propanediol, propylene glycol, etc…), get some hero ingredient - can be Niacinamide as mentioned and if needed other ingredients for marketing at 0.01%.
Of course well preserve and as Abdullah mentioned, chelator would not harm it.Hope this helps, happy formulating.
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The shear type is not defined by the speed. It is defined by the mixing head. You are definitely using high shear even under low speed.
Yeah, @Graillotion, what do you think about the high shear?
I know that some of them are shear tolerant or resistant, some even require high shear (apparently
haven’t found one yet), so I’m a bit skeptical about it. The first video has Tocopherol Acetate. That has no antioxidant benefits for the formula, only for skin.
Anyway, good job, keep posting
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I have a question too, what you guys think about Pemulen TR-2?
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@emma1985, thanks Ema for the videos. Well done
I am a bit worried about the high shear too. I don’t really think they are even high shear tolerant. I guess you do destroy some of that polymer during the mixing. Have you tried low shear only? And compared the two products?
I think the main reason why it didn’t separate is due to the waxy emulsifier.Also, you are using quite a bit of butters and oils, but no antioxidant to protect them.
But love the format of your videos
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Happiest Birthday @Perry! Hope you had a blast
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Lecithin
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evchem2 said:@Paprik do you have any literature/ source on XG swelling better in acidic media? Haven’t heard that before, I would have expected since it is anionic that acidity would not help hydration
Hello, sorry, to make it clear. XG is usually better in pH<7. However, there are some grades that tolerates higher pH. That is why I said slightly acidic.
XG is very forgiving.
We have been taught this in my study with IPCS. -
Hello,
HA takes a while to hydrate, but you will get there.
You can disperse it in water with preservative and leave it overnight.
Or I like to mix HA with glycerin/propylene glycol and add to water. This way you won’t have any clumps - same way as you would slurry natural gums to prevent fish eyes.Remember, HA is heat sensitive (do not heat) and shear sensitive.