Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating How can I improve my rinse-out hair conditioner?

  • How can I improve my rinse-out hair conditioner?

    Posted by Camel on May 1, 2022 at 7:29 am

    I made a fairly simple hair conditioner, but I am not feeling too pleased with the results. The main issue I am having with it is that it does not have much slip upon application. 

    Formula: (pH 4.5)

    • Water: up to 100%
    • BTMS-25: 4%
    • C10-18 Triglycerides: 3% (for viscosity)
    • Propanediol: 2%
    • Dimethicone: 1% (350 cst)
    • Polyquaternium-10: 0.5%
    • Hydroxyethylcellulose: 0.5%
    • Phenonip: 0.5% (Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Butylparaben, Propylparaben)

    I have a few questions:

    1. How can I improve the slip upon application?
    2. How much dimethicone is typically used in a conditioner?
    3. Is propanediol (or glycerin) beneficial to the formula or should I remove it?

    Here is the INCI for the commercial conditioner I currently use and like, with significantly more slip than mine:

    Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Stearyl Alcohol, Citric Acid, Glutamic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Caprylyl Glycol, 1, 2-Hexanediol, Fragrance

    Abdullah replied 1 year, 11 months ago 5 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • Squinny

    Member
    May 1, 2022 at 10:58 pm

    Hi I’m new to the forum and not a chemist just a hobbyist learning to make my own skin products mainly. I too am trying to make a nice hair conditioner an so far haven’t come close to the commercial ones I use. Looking at the ingredients for the one you like it has  Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine and you are using BTMS-25 (Behentrimoium Methosulphate + Cetearyl Alcohol) so not sure of impact of different emulsifies here. Also the Glutamic Acid in your commercial one seems to be the humectant they use. 

    FYI the one I made below which is ok but not great is this (Note that I put the BTMS-25 in heated water phase and I dont have an oil phase (formula is based on the place in Australia where I bought my BTMS-25 from)

    Heated Water
    Phase
    BTMS-25 emulsifier 5.00%
    Distilled Water 65.00%
    Lavender Water  19.70%
    Gotu Kola extract (Glycerin based) 5.00%
    Hydrolyzed Oats 1.50%
    Panthanol DL powder 1.50%
    Niacinamide powder 1.00%
    Cool down phase  
    Liquid Germall plus 0.50%
    Essential Oils - Lavender 0.30%
    Vitamin E 0.50%
    100.00%

    I also did another version for my partner which I had to throw out as after a few weeks smelt aweful (fishy and just yuk) and it contained lemmongrass essential oil rather than lavender and I used only distilled water not the lavender hydrosol) - so not sure if the lemongrass EO reacted with the BTMS 25 or what ? Also I noted that when the BTMS-25 gets too hot it smells fishy - is this normal? It seems ok (not fishy) when it cools down. I have had far more success with my skin creams lotions etc than my delving into Hair conditioners so woul dbe great to have a nice formula with ingredients I can source easily in Australia (not USA as too exxy for me now with exchange rates and shipping). Cheers  - Squinny
    PS I have learnt so much form all you folks here already just skimming through various topics.

     

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 12:18 am

    I will remove pq10

  • Paprik

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 3:13 am

    1. Remove HEC and use cationic guar (hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride). 
    + Add high HLB non-ionic emulsifier. It will build viscosity and improve wash off. 
    2. I think 1-2% is fine. 
    3. Yep, Glycerin is beneficial. Use Glycerin instead of Propanediol. It’s way cheaper and I dare to say way more effective. 

  • Camel

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 6:05 am

    Abdullah said:

    I will remove pq10

    Thank you; I will try that. 

    Paprik said:

    1. Remove HEC and use cationic guar (hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride). 
    + Add high HLB non-ionic emulsifier. It will build viscosity and improve wash off. 
    2. I think 1-2% is fine. 
    3. Yep, Glycerin is beneficial. Use Glycerin instead of Propanediol. It’s way cheaper and I dare to say way more effective. 

    1. I will have to purchase that but I will give it a try. Is 0.3% a good amount? Would Ceteareth-20 or Ceteareth-6 Olivate be good choices for non-ionic emulsifiers?

    2. Thank you; I will experiment with 2%. 

    3. Thanks for clarifying. Do you think 2% glycerin is enough? 

  • ketchito

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 1:55 pm

    @Camel I’d increase BTMS-25 up to 5%, and Dimethicone up to 2%. If possible, switch to a 1000 cps dimethicone.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    @Paprik can you explain what is the benefit of humectant like glycerin for hair?

    In my opinion humectants attract water and we don’t want water in our hair.

    I am ready to change my opinion. 

  • Paprik

    Member
    May 2, 2022 at 6:27 pm

    Well, that depends. In hair masks for very dry and damaged hair it is really beneficial. As it draws moisture to the porous and damaged/dry hair. Same as conditioner (it also prevents drying of the product), but it helps retain some of the moisture so the hair don’t get super dry after - Plus it fights frizziness. 

    In my (humble) opinion, it is good to have a good humectant in hair products. 

    And @Camel, yeah, 2% should be fine. Try it out and see. :)

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 3, 2022 at 8:38 am

    Paprik said:

    Well, that depends. In hair masks for very dry and damaged hair it is really beneficial. As it draws moisture to the porous and damaged/dry hair. Same as conditioner (it also prevents drying of the product), but it helps retain some of the moisture so the hair don’t get super dry after - Plus it fights frizziness. 

    In my (humble) opinion, it is good to have a good humectant in hair products. 

    And @Camel, yeah, 2% should be fine. Try it out and see. :)

    Thanks

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