[Paprik]

@Pharma I am speechless Thank you, from you I take it as a really big compliment.

@Jaycetowww, sorry if I sounded like that, but .. it looks like you have, more or less, no idea what are you doing. So I just wanted to get some more information from you. [Maybe on how to approach to you and explain things].

As you can see, a lot of ppl/chemists here gave you a lot of things to change and think about. 

Try to put neat glycerin on your skin. How does it feel? Try to make 32% solution in water and put it on your skin. How does it feel? 
Now, imagine adding 32% of powder. 
Do NOT put neat tocopherol on your skin, but look at that. It is honey-like. Imagine this in the formula at 4%. 

Preservative is also important, as I believe you will have pH a bit over 3? 

Start low, small, easy and test, test, test. That is how you gain knowledge and learn. We can tell you here a lot of things, but unless you see it and experience it, it won’t mean a lot. Happy formulating!

[Paprik]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction. 

@ketchito, what would be the equipment? Is it homogeniser and some low shear overhead mixer? 

[Paprik]

1. Non-ionic helps with building viscosity and mildness to the product. Customers usually like thick product, they think it is a sign of well performing product. 
2. Definitely high HLB, it is for better wash off.

[Paprik]

Before I will try to help, I need to ask.

Have you created this product? Or any other? Have you touched/seen those listed ingredients? Do you understand a bit of chemistry? 

[Paprik]

I am not sure at this input (1%), but zinc oxide self regulates to pH of around 7 (in SPF or balms products)

I guess you get a slight skin protective benefits as it covers the skin a bit, but I would not rely on it. 

[Paprik]

How much of it are you using? 

There are some better grades of XG on the market, try to investigate them. If you are using standard 200 Mesh, yeah, you will have some tackiness at higher inputs. However, we would really need to see the whole formula to see what else can cause it. 

[Paprik]

Lol @ggpetrov, so much hate against poor Montanov 202  
But hey, I hear ya! It is very expensive, but I think it does make nice creams. However, it does have higher melting point and the cooling takes ages. And yeah, you cannot speed it up. And you really have to use High shear otherwise it won’t work (this note is for you @RocketDog. If really requires high shear - homogeniser).

But I have it in my cream and have not had issues either. 
In total, for the price and hassle, it is not the best one. 

[Paprik]

Omg, sometimes I read my comments a while after and wonder how could I write something like this I guess that’s because I am usually doing it early morning before work. I should re-read it twice or thrice before posting. *cringe*

I hope it makes sense. **neat on rabbits ears and wait. At least that is how comedogenicity was tested. And irritancy of some ingredients back at the days. 

If you want, I could show you how to check things like this on CosIng .. EU database SUSMP for AUS is a bit tricky to use, but also handy. 

[Paprik]

As there are no regulatory limits (EU, AUS), I’d say 100%. I believe that is how they were testing the ingredients, neat on the rabbits ears and wait. Or submerge them into solution and wait. 

[Paprik]

HEC, better grades of Xanthan Gum (clear), Methocel. Or any other gum that produces clear solution once hydrated. 

[Paprik]

I think cyclomethicone is being used in skincare, I saw it in some men’s skincare formulas. 

Cyclomethicone evaporates slowlier than water. So you do not need to worry about play time. It will stay on the skin for some time. But it won’t make it greasy (that is why it is used in hair care, as it won’t weight the hair down and most of it will evaporate during styling and leaving only other ingredients/actives behind).

Sorry, not sure about the powder residue, but I think it’s a lie. It will completely evaporate. Leave a little bit of it on watch glass and a day after it will completely disappear. 

[Paprik]

@MarkBroussard

I have no idea how can you make L-Arginine work? I mean, if you dissolve it in water it does not a high pH. How can it effect the pH of a final product? 
I saw a lot of L-Arginine being used but I never figured out how they do it. It does not bring the pH up. I must be missing something. ?
Thank you!  

[Paprik]

E Wax NF is an O/W emulsifier. This won’t work. Plus you have no water, so you cannot create an emulsion. You need silicone or oil compatible stabiliser. Or both (?) I am not really sure, I have never done such a product. 
You would need to experiment, or hopefully someone else will have an answer for this.  

[Paprik]

You are mixing lipids and silicones. Different polarities. Nothing to hold them together. 

That is what is wrong I think. You need some stabilizing agent to keep it together. 

[Paprik]

Hi,

could you at least share what the lipid portion? In total? 
And extracts?

When you state you add Tocopherol into Oil phase. Does that mean you are heating it with all the lipid portion for emulsification? 
That might be the problem. Tocopherol (I am guessing you are not using Tocopherol Acetate) is heat sensitive and if you are using it in balm/hot pour, you need to increase its input significantly as some of it does oxidase due to the high temperature. 

Also, I am not really sure about your preservation system. 
Gluconactone does help with preservation of the product, but I would not rely on it. Especially with Potassium Sorbate only. (You have a very nutrient rich formula)

[Paprik]

Hey @RDchemist15, thank you! I will try it  

[Paprik]

Or you can swab it. As you would do on your tables, equipment etc … 
I believe some tests you can do even yourself. If you buy Agar plates, sterile swaps, nutrient liquid and incubator. You just need to know how to count colonies, what to look for etc .. Just an idea  

Of course it is better to send it off to more qualified companies. 

[Paprik]

Yep, gums or polymers.

[Paprik]

Thank you guys. I was really hoping there is something I can do to make EGDS work. I don’t have any other use for it I don’t have a lot of it, but don’t want to just throw it away. 

@ketchito hmm, ok, will try to cool it down faster.

[Paprik]

I think everyone should say a huge THANK YOU for Mark’s time and for sharing his amazing knowledge! We all can learn something new and we do (at least I do) very much appreciate it. So thank you @MarkBroussard  

[Paprik]

1. Supplier should usually provide nice and clean packaging. If not, I would return it. Cleaning the packaging is not a good thing. 
2. You should also conduct some microbial testing on a few packaging. 
3. Your preservative system should be strong enough to avoid any issues. 
(that is why you’re usually sending product in its original packaging for PET). 
4. If you are making things at home (small batches), you can spray it with a rubbing alcohol. 

You usually do not need things to be sterilized. Sanitized? Yes.
Clean air and GMP is also important. 

[Paprik]

Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside which if I remember correctly is also natural. 

I think also Taurates and possibly Isethionates should be strong enough to solubilize small amount of lipid. 

[Paprik]

Do I need an emulsifier? If so, which is appropriate? - I would say no, Sepimax ZEN is your emulsifier at this input. You can lower it and add some other non-ionic emulsifier to make it more creamy (less gelly). However only stability testing will answer your question. 

Is it possible to make a transparent gel which contains oil phase? I would say no. Once you introduce lipid (not solubilised) it will turn milky.

What can I do to achieve my intended result? Remove oil or solubilise it. 

[Paprik]

Those mentioned ingredients are fine and safe if used within their regulatory limits and as meant to. That is all we can tell you. You would need to provide full formula (and method) for us to review it and correct it if needed. 

Even though skin itself does not have pH, it likes pH around 4.5 - 5.5. So you are safe to formulate to that levels. (Unless you are using actives/preservative that require specific pH, then you formulate to those needs)

Hope that helps. 

[Paprik]

Niacinamide is really stable ingredient. It tolerates lower pH - best to use between pH 3.5 - 7.5. (It has been mentioned couple of times on this forum).

To get its acid form, you would require quite high pressure and temperature (and low pH). Which won’t happen during your product manufacture.