Paprik
Forum Replies Created
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Yeah, I was surprised too. 7% for 4% oil phase. Cray cray
However … have you tried working with Carbomer? 940/980?
If I want something creamy, but also for it to have the gel properties I include it.
It thickens perfectly and on application it kind of breaks down. And it’s very light.Also, evaluate your samples the next day. For some emulsifiers it takes even couple of days to reach their full viscosity.
Do not heat hyaluronic acid, as for the extract check with your supplier (but I would say do not heat either), propanediol is ok to be heated. Can be added into water phase. [Usually used to slurry a gum if being used]
PS. I would take off some water from phase A and let hydrate the HA there - separately. Then I would add that below 40°C in cool down phase. Much easier to incorporate it this way. [You can see when the HA has fully hydrated before adding it into the rest of the formula]
Hope this helps, Happy formulating!
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@ngarayeva001, thanks!
… sorry, one more question, how much of a base do I need to add? (Let’s say I would use Sodium Hydroxide). Is there any ratio? -
Hi, we can only guess, but … what colour was the original? If it turned into this pink-ish, it could mean microbial contamination.
However, I do see problem in your ingredient list. You are using acetate form or tocopherol. This has no antioxidant properties for your lipids - and you are using a lot of plant oil lipids that are prone to rancidity.
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ketchito said:@Fekher You also need to add some base (sodium hydroxide for instance) to neutralize the Stearic acid, so it can work as an emulsifier.
I have never understood this.
So Stearic acid needs some base to be able to be emulsifier (saponification I reckon). But wouldn’t it need higher pH to be able to maintain its properties? Meaning, if you would take the pH back down, it should “separate”, shouldn’t it?
Could you please explain it to me good man? -
@Abdullah thank you mate!
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So you say you have made it, right?
The questions should come from you. Do you like it? Or do you feel like it should be more hydrating or you’re having stability issues? Or something else?Just looking at your formula, you are lacking humectant. Quite high lipid input. Have you freeze/thaw it [stability test]?
Try the cream and let us know if you would like to improve something or help with specific issue.
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@perry - Thank you! That is actually good to know.
Sorry, one more question. Did you “swell” it also before surfactants or at the end? I read some brochures about Methocel and they recommend to swell it before, so just double checking [It kinda does not makes sense, as it won’t swell with all available water from the formula, but hey, if they say it, right? ] Thanks a lot! -
Perry said:Yeah, we used HPMC in our shampoo until we removed it in a cost savings measure. HEC was in our conditioner formula. (VO5)
What have you replaced it with? If you don’t mind telling us?
Also, how did you process it? Have you thicken it prior to adding surfactants or at the end?
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HEC is terrible in surfactant systems. Never had a success with it - always separated. Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose would suit better.
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Sarcosinates can thicken with presence of salt, but it’s not as easy as it is with sulfates or Taurates. You might still need some gum to thicken the system.
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I believe lauryl glucoside is even harder to thicken?
But yeah, better grade of Xanthan Gum would be great. . The standard (200 mesh I believe) is just disgusting
stringy and snotty … -
Yeah, even if you would build some viscosity with carbomer (which I doubt coz you’re using CAPB), once you add salt, it will all turn water thin.
You don’t need to use sulfates as your primary surfactant. There are milder surfactants on the market and there is possibility they will thicken with salt.
E.g. Taurides, Isethionates (although they are a bit more expensive if compared with sulfates). [Sarcosinates also, but they are trickier to thicken]Or use HPMC as Perry suggested.
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Hello @Dtdang, please see attached
You should get plenty of info from this brochure. Happy formulating. -
Hi @Pharma, on this note (sorry for a side question @Perry ), I discovered Minoxidil sulfate. Apparently it should be better than Minoxidil. What do you think about it? I’m using it at the moment, but I don’t feel like it’s doing much.
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I am a bit worried about you mixing anionic (SCI, Stearic acid, SLSa) with cationic (BTMS). Especially if you will melt it and pour it.
You can probably reduce Panthenol, it only adds to the cost and will be washed down the drain. So will probably the extract.The main ingredients would be anionics, P-7 for conditioning and … yeah
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https://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/practical-surfactants/cloud-krafft.php
Would this help a bit?
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Hmmm, hard to say, as all off them are kind of contributing to it. I’d say maybe Cetrimonium Chloride.
All the ethoxylated lipids after and humectants to follow. -
You would need to use something like mica powder that has pearl colour/effect (mind that you would need to stabilise it)
Or, you could use something like pearliser - glycol stearate.
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- What is the acceptable percentage of surfactants a shampoo should contain?
I don’t think there is one. It really depends. However keep in mind that hair = lot of surface to clean. So usually shampoos have higher surfactants input.
It also depends on what type of surfactant are you using and what type of hair is it for.- How much of a chelating agent should be in a chelating shampoo and what is the maximum percentage and the right PH?
Not all surfactants require chelating agent. If they do, check supplier data for recommended inputs and required pH.
E.g. shampoo with sulfates would required a chelator, I’d use diNA EDTA at 0.1 - 0.2%.- What is the right PH for a normal shampoo and conditionner?
Shampoo - I’d say 5 - 5.5.
Conditioner - lower pH - 4 - 4.5.-Should I add an emulsifier when formulating a shampoo or does the surfactants in it do the job ?
No, you don’t need to. Unless you’re making some kind of hydrating shampoo lotion -
Their holding power is based on their waxy/semi-solid form.
They should be semi-solid to touch and should soften when rubbed between fingers/hands for easy application.They are usually W/O balms kaolin is added to ensure a matte finish.
Hope this helps
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No worries @Anca_Formulator
Nope, we did not make any of those.
Our practical was - Emulsion/Skin cream (they gave you formula), Surfactant with Sulfate (they gave you formula), Light lotion (your own formula), Sulfate free Face wash (your own formula), Conditioner (your own formula) and Reverse Engineering of their sample. They do supply ingredients for all of those.However, you do need to make a looooot of formulas. Just formulas .., according to their guides and builds. From easy creams, to DHA tanning lotions, surfactant systems, SPF, products with actives, hair care (waxes, hair dyes … ). There is a lot to do.
Sorry if I took my answer too far
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Here’s the formula and method
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Hmm, I think I can get something like this in here. I thought it would be something more like “cosmetic” grade. Not like supplement.
Anyhow, when I try to look for it, my repacker has this :
They don’t say what is the %, but I will try to get it from them.
Already ordered it -
@Graillotion, let me know if you’ll find any small repacker (I know it is not close from Hawaii to NZ, but .. can try to communicate with them).
I would love to try something like this toooo .. My eyes get puffy a lot *cringe*