ozgirl
Forum Replies Created
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Any time any of the following statements are mentioned is definitely bad formulating advice.“You don’t need a preservative for this lotion/shampoo/<insert other water containing/contact product here>”“Preservatives are bad”“Use essential oils as preservatives”:# -
This might be of interest
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If they will accept Benzyl Alcohol you could try Euxyl K903.
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You need to get a pH meter. Trying to use any type of polymer where neutralization is required really needs a pH meter. pH paper strips are not accurate enough for this type of material.Try reducing the amount of Fixate Superhold polymer to see if this reduces the stringy effect.
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If you are a paying a cosmetic chemist to develop a formula you will get a much better formula (stability tested, properly preserved) that is more suited to your needs than just buying one off Etsy etc.If you just want to make products for your family and not really learn about formulating then you will probably be OK just buying a DIY formula (just look for a seller who isn’t afraid of preservatives).Raw material suppliers and industry websites (e.g. Prospector) are great for starting formulations but you need to have an understanding of raw materials and their functions so you can adapt these to meet your needs.
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@Dreamer77 You do know that if this product is a cosmetic you will have to list the ingredients on the label. So sharing them here would be no different than having them on the label.Most of us know know that the difference between a cream that sells for $50 and one that sells for $1000 is largely packaging and marketing not usually formulating.If you provide the ingredients list maybe someone can see an incompatibility between your ingredients. You do not need to provide percentages but if you want help you need to give more information.
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It would likely be self preserved by the high pH of both the glucoside surfactants and the coconut soap.
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I haven’t tried cetyl esters so I can’t really comment on that.Polyquaternium 10 might add some additional benefits that BTMS doesn’t but you should just try it with and without Polyquaternium-10 and see if there is a perceivable difference.
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The only things that are necessary areWaterBTMS-50optiphen plusReduce your oils to 1 or 2 you definitely do not need different 9 oils.Aloe and honey are bug food so leave these out.Add your extracts individually and see if there is any perceivable difference (if not leave them out).You probably don’t need cetyl alcohol and cetearyl alcohol. Try each one to see which gives you the feel/viscosity you need.Adding so many ingredients like this is just throwing money away.
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@Perry Thanks I have signed up.
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Will this be recorded like the previous debate?I would love to watch live but it will be 2am here in Australia.
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What was the pH before and after the addition of the chelating agents?
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You could try Dow Aculyn Excel or Carbopol Ultrez 20. They are probably a good starting point for acrylate polymers.Vanderbilt Veegum (Magnesium Aluminium Silicate) has synergistic suspending ability with gums but I haven’t tried this. https://www.asharrison.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Veegum%C2%AE.pdf
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You will probably need to look at acrylate polymers with high suspending ability (yield value) such as Aculyn Excel or similar.
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In your other thread I suggested that you may have a sensitivity to the hydroxysultaine as this was common to all of your trials. Try a formula without this and see if you get the same irritation.
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Trulux in Australia has it and ships internationally but I have no idea about shipping costs.
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Are you sure you definitely have 20% SLES? What does it look like? Is it a paste or a liquid?
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What is CFAS?You could try adding Tetrasodium EDTA or sodium metasilicate to boost alkalinity.Is the acid washer you refer to a separate product?
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You will need to provide more information on your formulation to get useful answers.Generally you will need to increase the pH in your concentrated product to allow for the drop when it is diluted.
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If you have a sensitivity Cocamidopropyl betaine it is likely that you also have a sensitivity to Cocamidopropyl hydroxysultaine.It is thought that the allergen in CAP Betaine is actually impurities from the manufacturing process and similar impurities would also be present in CAP hydroxysultaine.Try a different surfactant and reconsider the use of a preservative to stop contamination of your products.
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Shampoos generally are a blend of surfactants and water (+ preservatives etc) they do not contain the same type of emulsifiers and thickeners that you would find in lotions and creams.The choice of thickener will depend on your final surfactant choice. Some surfactants can be thickened with salt but others cannot and require the use of gums or other thickeners (e.g. crothix).Hope this helps.
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What is your preservative? Some preservatives can cause irritation to some people.Definitely leave out the stearic acid, it is not generally used in shampoos. Coconut oil is just suspressing foam and reducing cleaning performance.As the Cocamidopropyl hydroxysultaine is common to all formulas it could be that you have a sensitivity to this material.HTH
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I definitely recommend converting to weights (not volume) and percentages.It seems like you are trying to do too much with a shampoo.You probably need to remove about half of the ingredients.I would recommend removing the following.Coconut Milk Powder (bug food),SCI (low solubility not generally used in liquid products - Try Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate instead)Glyceryl Stearateglyceryl caprate/caprylateVarisoft EQ (cationic - save it for your conditioner)I would recommend going back to just Water, Plantapon LCG, Cocamidopropyl betaine and Preservative then one at a time add the other ingredients fragrance, extracts and check performance.
Hope this helps.