ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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Not 100% what exactly causes it in your formula, but I can tell what worked as a result of trial and error for me: btms is fine, up cetyl alcohol to 7%, reduce oil to less than 1%. Keep the oil phase simple: BTMS, cetyl alcohol and oil for claims and remove everything else. 8% of sodium lactate looks high and it doesn’t do much in a rinse off product, so bring down to 1% or remove. Don’t add aloe powder. Keep claim ingredients in the cool down phase at 1% all together. Should work.
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@Perry, I totally see your point. That ad caught my attention so much that I stopped by a drug store on my way home the same day to check the ingredients’ list and wasn’t disappointed (I probably look like a crazy person reading labels in a store smiling). On the other hand it’s very hard to talk to an average consumer using common sense. They want a story.
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Try PEG-40 HCO. It works in a concentration 4:1 with many oils, so you probably need 6% if you need clear solution.
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Solubilisers are designed to incorporate only very small amount of oil into water. How much oil do you use?
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Well here is a deal with consumers, although there are ingredients that are proven to have skin benefits, not many want to use them. Take retinol as an example, for it to work work, it should be at a concentration that will cause irritation and peeling. A consumer should wait for a couple of months until the skin overcomes that shock. And I am not even talking about prescription tretinoin. Not too many people want to have patchy skin for 2-3 months. They just want a promise, hope in a jar, and those plant extracts create a story. Personal responsibility is key.
But saying that your sulfate-based shampoo is natural is not the same as saying that aloe vera gel soothes the skin. The first is simply not true, the second is a matter of perception (that gel is cold it creates a calming feeling on irritated skin). Do you see the difference?
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It is very difficult to create a naturally compliant and well-performing product. It requires a lot of knowledge and experience, access to expensive materials and access to a lab to test your samples. But it doesn’t mean that it’s the only way to sell your product. Have a look at the ingredients list of products in the luxury segment. The most expensive products in the world are formulated in a traditional way with silicones, sulfates, PEGs, acrylates and synthetic esters. The consumer wants aesthetics of the application, beautiful packaging, and a dream in a bottle. Give them a beautiful and effective product, create an appealing marketing story, keep your poor SLES in the formula and don’t mention synthetic/natural thing. An average consumer is very very uneducated.
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@UsmanAli, it’s a really good question but I am afraid there is no simple answer. It is impossible to measure because emulsifier is not the only variable in this equation. Stability depends, on droplets size (the smaller is better), on the polarity of materials used and many other factors. So figuring out whether the emulsion is going to be stable is a matter of trial and error.
To make your life at least a little easier, I can tell you that Arlacel 165 (Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 stearate) is a very versatile O/W emulsifier used a lot by the industry. I often see it mixed with Ceteareth-20, and/or polymeric emulsifiers.
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@smok, look, what you are doing is not ok. I understand that you feel pushed into it and I feel your frustration. However, you don’t need to claim your SLES shampoo is natural to sell it. It is all about marketing.
I noticed this advertisement in the London tube recently:
I went to a store on the same day to see the ingredients’ list. It’s a clear SLES/CAPB shampoo without fragrances and colourants. The ingredient list is like 7-8 ingredients, much shorter than regular shampoos. They saved money on materials and managed to make it a part of their marketing story. There is no single lie in this ad. Fewer chemicals. Indeed fewer ingredients = fewer chemical because everything is a chemical. Don’t lie to your consumers. Just get creative with your marketing.
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Anyone can make cosmetic products as long as they only use them on themselves.
There is another angle to this. Demand creates supply, not the other way around. Consumers don’t want to buy petrolatum, glycerin and lanolin emulsion. They want “the miracle broth” (ref to Creme de La Mer). There are plenty of ways to sell cosmetics without lying to customers. For example, Lush call their cosmetics “handmade”. Their formula’s look like examples from Harry’s 8th edition dated 2000. TEA stearate and parabens, yet customers love it. My point is you don’t need to lie to the customer and call your product natural. Natural skincare is like 15% of the market.
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@enthusiash Haha! I know this one! It caused me cognitive dissonance when I just got into formulating. I understood very quickly (after wasting a small fortune worth of ingredients) that it’s absolutely impossible to dissolve that much of high molecular weight HA in water. Then, when I realised that ingredients must be listed in decending order (some companies ignore it, but it’s FDA reqiurement and a company of Peter Thomas Roth’s size would not take that risk), I found out that math doesn’t add up. Sodium Hyaluronate is the 4th ingredient. If it’s at 75% how much are the ingredients above it in the list? You can argue that it’s some type of ultra low molecular weight HA, but math is math. I bet they use 2% max.
- Water/Aqua/Eau
- Saccharide Isomerate
- Sorbitol
- Sodium Hyaluronate
- Lactobacillus/Olive Leaf Ferment Extract
- Opuntia Tuna Fruit Extract
- Honey Extract
- Algae Extract
- Eriodictyon Crassifolium Leaf Extract
- Hydrolyzed Silk
- Saccharomyces/Zinc Ferment
- Saccharomyces/Copper Ferment
- Saccharomyces/Magnesium Ferment
- Saccharomyces/Iron Ferment
- Saccharomyces/Silicon Ferment
- Pentylene Glycol
- Butylene Glycol
- Glycerin
- Urea
- Sodium Pca
- Trehalose
- Polyquaternium-51
- Triacetin
- Propylene Glycol
- Diazolidinyl Urea
- Methylparaben
- Propylparaben
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@chemicalmatt, are there any ingredients that are beneficial when delivered to the cortex? My current understanding (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that hair is dead and the only thing you can do is applying cationics and silicones to hide the damage.
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You can’t dissolve more than 2% of High molecular weight HA in water (maybe a bit more but it will become clumpy). That 60% claim means 60% of that 2% solution in water. I also think it’s very misleading.
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Too much oil. Poly 20 isn’t particularly strong. It somewhat works with less than 1% of EOs (depending on the oil). PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil is better solubilizer.
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Here you go: https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Silica_p_1061.html
I cannot find dicaprylyl carbonate, but I understand it’s an emollient with a dry feel. You can replace it with any ester with a dry feel, such as Isopropyl Mirystate. -
SCI, SLSa and CAPB is a good combination. Relatively mild yet foams well.
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@Doreen, I cannot agree more.. if you don’t love your dog when it’s not white enough don’t get a dog.
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Dimethiconol, polyquaternium 10, behentrimonium chloride.
Make a shampoo (as basic as SLES/CAPB) with 1% of polyquaternium 10, follow with a hair mask with behentrimonium chloride (you can add other cationics too if you wish) and finish it with a simple hair serum (dimethiconol in cyclopentasiloxane plus 5-7% of phenyl trimethicone). If that doesn’t work nothing else will. -
@Pharma, would gluconolactone work? In that case it can be added at higher amount as a PHA and have double function (as a chelator and as a polyhydroxy acid
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Would you sell small amounts (like 1kg)?
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The best way to learn formulating is reverse engineering existing products. And only after you can recreate something that was done by competent people you can create your own.
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And why is coco caprylate better than octyldodecanol? Both are esters. Both don’t grow on trees.
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Look at how water resistant and waterproof mascaras are made: w/o with relatively high amounts of fiml formers such as PVP.
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Minimalistic shampoo: SLES, CAPB, NaCL, Preservative, Water. Citric Acid.
Nicer version of a minimalistic shampoo: all the above plus .5% of Poliquaternium 10, Refatting agent (glyceryl oleate or PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate), fragrance.Sodium lauroyl glutamate is too mild and difficult to thicken. You will be better off investing in more traditional surfactants, if you want a decent result.
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@Perry, I heard some people actually don’t mind that glucosides feel. I personally don’t like it at all.
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@Pharma, natural skincare on Etsy is a mega cringe ? you would be shocked what nonsense people sell there. It’s all that’s wrong about DIY cosmetics in one place. Totally worth having a look but you will need a drink after it.