Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating What do you think about this formula?

  • What do you think about this formula?

    Posted by margi on September 18, 2019 at 7:08 pm

    Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate (and) Lauryl Glucoside 18.5%
    coco betain 18.5%
    zinc pca 10%
    almond oil 4%
    vitamin e oil 5%
    cosgard 0.2%
    lemon essentinal oil 0.2-1%

    i wanted to make a curly friendly low porosity hair shampoo

    i am also looking for something that could give it more of a moisturizing effect if this was not to be enough. preferible ecocert, cosmos approved products.
    i also thought about putting in some glycerin but dident because its water soluble.

    margi replied 4 years, 10 months ago 4 Members · 10 Replies
  • 10 Replies
  • margi

    September 18, 2019 at 7:09 pm

    also any suggestions on penetrating conditioning agents would be great. 
    thank you 

  • OldPerry

    September 18, 2019 at 7:29 pm

    This looks like a pretty ineffective shampoo that would be dissatisfying to use.

    Just a few comments.

    1.  Putting oils in a shampoo is not wise. The point of a shampoo is to remove oils from hair. By including oils in your shampoo you are essentially just making your shampoo work worse. Oils belong in conditioners, not shampoos. And Vitamin E oil has no proven effectiveness in hair.

    2.  Lemon essential oil is an allergen which can negatively effect many consumers.  Probably should be avoided.

    3.  Zinc PCA is not effective and especially not effective from a shampoo where it would just be rinsed away.

    4.  Unless you want to include a cationic polymer or a dispersed silicone, you can’t get good conditioning from a shampoo.

    As for personal tastes, I find Glucoside shampoos to be terrible but maybe your consumer might like the low foam & draggy feel of the formula.

    Ultimately though, your consumer will tell you whether you have a useful formula or not. 

  • ngarayeva001

    September 18, 2019 at 8:27 pm

    @Perry, I heard some people actually don’t mind that glucosides feel. I personally don’t like it at all.

  • margi

    September 19, 2019 at 5:41 pm

    if theres no good putting oils in shampoos why are there so many brands that use them in there products. i mean you see argan oil, jojoba oil and all types o oils in ALLOT of shampoos and conditioners. how come you not like it?
    now the zinc i might agree with, that one i can understand. 
    and the surfactant mix was sugested from an other formulater who really seamed like he knew what he was doing tho yes im avare that co surfactanst arent as good as main surfactants. but there cant be any harm in trying. and also this is for african hair types, low porosity. and they can be a little dry especially if low porosity. so i am going to need something to make it more manageable and a none stripping shampoo. 

  • OldPerry

    September 19, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    @margi - Thanks for your response.

    Big companies put oils in shampoos strictly for marketing purposes and to tell a story. The level that is in there is typically 0.1% or lower and it will have minimal impact on the performance. These are “claims” ingredients and it’s very common in the cosmetic industry to include these. The reality is that consumers don’t want to buy products they are told work because of chemically sounding things like Sodium Lauryl Sulfate or Cocamidopropyl Betaine. They want buy products made from Coconut oil and Jojoba oil. These ingredients do not provide any real benefit but consumers think they do. So companies put a tiny splash of an ingredient in the formula, then focus their marketing message on it. 

    On this forum, I try to cut through the marketing hype and focus on reality & what is provably true. 

    Lots of people call themselves formulators these days and it’s true anyone can go out, buy chemicals, mix them together and come to believe they are competent formulators.  That doesn’t mean they are.

    You will get different advice from people who have worked in the cosmetic industry on brands that you can buy from your local grocery store, Target or Walmart. 

    Back to your specific question…

    1. If you like how that surfactant blend works, then that’s great. I’m sure it will be fine. There is no harm in trying. I personally don’t like how they perform and I don’t think they would be generally accepted. The fact that none of the 10 best selling shampoos are based on those surfactants should tell you something.

    2.  Find a benchmark product already on the market and use it as a starting place. You should have a target product you are trying to emulate. It is much better than starting from scratch.

    But this is just my opinion. The only way you’ll know if you’ve made a good formula is to mix it together and see what you think. And if you like it, other people might like it. Many people won’t like it but unless those people were your target customer, that doesn’t matter. 

    hope that helps

  • margi

    September 19, 2019 at 6:49 pm

    thank you i appreciate all the feed back

    now if i were to make a bad formula. (witch i probably will) would it be possible to just work from there, figure out what i like and dont like about it. and fix it. lets say i dont think  its cleansing enough, or its leving the hair seeming to ruff. then could i build on it from there?

    and thank you yes i can assure you that starting from the bottom is a whole lot more tricky then making something similare to an other product. my worst enemy now  is surfactants. 

    It helped a whole lot

  • Pharma

    September 19, 2019 at 7:19 pm
    Personally, I like glucoside based shampoos and my hair loves them! My hair (the part that’s still on my scalp LoL) gets greasy super fast and I have to wash it now daily (sucks). It’s getting all hay and frizz with harsh/good shampoo but does really fine with less performing mild glucosides.
    Why not try just the surfactant base and then add one ingredient after the other, bit by bit?
    Not sure, but aren’t zinc salts regulated? At such high levels, it still might be okay in a rinse-off product but the cost of 10% alone… uff… On the other hand, PCA is great, I like that stuff too! Why not apply PCA and/or its salts afterwards as a leave-in moisturiser? Zinc is mostly used for dandruff and several skin conditions but won’t do much on a healthy scalp.
  • ngarayeva001

    September 19, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    The best way to learn formulating is reverse engineering existing products. And only after you can recreate something that was done by competent people you can create your own. 

  • Pharma

    September 19, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    I don’t agree with @ngarayeva001 but it’s often one of the easier ways to learn things.

  • margi

    September 19, 2019 at 10:04 pm

    thank you for your answers, (and the other times you answered lol) 
    but i think i will try this formula out with some changes now that i got some good answeres. 

    and to be honest i knew that if i put teh zinc in i would get some coments on if i should have it in there or not, so it was more of a way for me to see if it fitted there or not (so thank you )

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