ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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Also you don’t have enough BTMS and cetyl alcohol and way too much oils in that conditioner.
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I have another question, why using paper when there’s Excel? It calculates for you and it’s very easy to scale up/down, replace ingredients, calculate HLB at the end of the day.
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Thank you. I have already ordered it and will try it.
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Do you have an access to a lab that will test spf and a good homogenizer? If not don’t even start. Testing of spf will cost you around $10,000 depending on location. You can not predict spf simply betting on amount on zinc oxide. It must be tested properly.
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Yes, that will be stable, but not aesthetically pleasing. When I mentioned that W/O are hard to make I was referring to more modern high internal phase (70%+ of water) W/O or W/Si emulsions.
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I saw a couple pf formulas (one with hydroquinone) where it was used at 0.2%
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You need to start reading cosmetic formulation books. Harry’s Cosmetology 8th edition is a good starting point.
But in summary cationic or positively charged are used for hair conditioners. Non-ionic and anionic are used in all other products. It’s broad generalization. Start reading lists of ingredients and you will see patterns -
I think they just forgot to include it. It looks like wrong list of ingredients to me.
Let me tell you why this product is bad. It has a lot of thickeners, heavy olive oil, heavy petrolatum, and no silicones. It will leave white stripes when you apply it (if it doesn’t they didn’t include some other ingredients). Also, parabens are used in combinations. Methylparaben alone isn’t enough.If you want to make a hand cream with these ingredients, my suggestion is as follows:
- remove stearic acid (it’s draggy and contributes to soaping),
- keep petrolatum (3-6%) and glycerin (4-7%), it’s an amazing combination for dry hands),
- keep cetyl palmitate and cetyl alcohol (3-6% together),
- I would suggest either change the oil (say to almond) or mix olive oil with some light ester (isopropyl myristate, C12-15 alkyl benzoate, caprylic/capric triglycerides etc) but it’s up to you.
- use an emulsifier, you can either combine your glyceryl stearate with ceteareth 20 or buy a blend of glyceryl stearate and PEG-100 (% depends on your oil phase but from 3-7%)
- you can use germaben II as a preservative, it has both methylparaben and propylparaben which makes it broadspectrum. You can also use liquid germall plus or germall powder.
- add dimethicone 1-1.5% to reduce soaping -
Thank you @Pharma. I might be missing something, but as per my experience with LAA, it oxidises in the presence of water itself. Is it somehow different with these type of formulas?
I was lucky to find sodium metabisulfite on amazon. It’s for use in wine, I wonder if it’s ok for cosmetic use? -
Here is my formula:
INCI % Almond oil 61.90% Cetearyl
alcohol and PEG-20 Stearate12.00% PEG-40 HCO 10.00% Stearic acid 10.00% Cetearyl
Alcohol5.00% Tocopherol 0.10% blend of
essential oils0.50% Phenoxy and EHG 0.50% Plus some abrasive particles (sugar or walnut/almond shells) qs.
I made a huge tub and it has been sitting in the bathroom forever (7 months plus for sure). Now, if it gets too hot, I sometimes notice a little bit of seeping, but when it’s colder it gets solid again. -
No, cetearyl alcohol is a co-emulsifier. It will not create an emulsion on its own. Glyceryl Stearate is also considered a stabiliser. What you can do, is either getting yourself Glyceryl Stearate SE version (self-emulsifying), but I personally don’t like it or go for a very popular and easy to get Arlacel 165 (Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate blend). Another option, you can add Ceteareth-20 (also easy to find) to your cetearyl alcohol and glyceryl stearate.
Cetyl palmitate is just a waxy ester. It won’t really add much to stability when you already have cetearyl alcohol.Arlacel 165 and Ceteareth-20 are not natural (if it matters to you). Glyceryl Stearate SE is approved by some “natural” standards ( I think it must be COSMOS but double-check).
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Yes, it is important to use deionised water.
W/O are very very very (I can’t emphasise it enough) different than O/W. They are not stable. They look fine and then separate out of the blue sky in 2-3 months. You shouldn’t use hydrocolloids (unless it’s some sort of HIPE geltrap) to thicken it because water isn’t external phase anymore. Very often they just thicken as a response to high shear. If you want to stabilise W/O, use waxes, such as hydrogenated castor oil (or any hydrogenated oil I guess), don’t forget stabilisers such as magnesium or zinc stearate (0.5%). Polyglycerol-3 Beeswax (Cera bellina) isn’t bad idea either. I saw some formulas using stearic acid and even beeswax, but I haven’t tried it myself.
Also, don’t forget adding 1% of salt for stability (MG sulfate).
And get patience. You will have a lot of failed products. -
I learn something cool here every day ?
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It was my understanding that a little bit of seeping is normal for such products.
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Anecdotal evidence: have been using moisturiser with 9% of petrolatum under my eyes for the last two years. The only “side effect” I noticed is that I have no crow feet at all (even when I forget to apply it occasionally). Petrolatum is amazing though
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By the way NAG is sold by lotioncrafter
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There’s a research saying that 4% of Niacinamide plus 2% of NAG lightens skin. I personally didn’t notice any difference and the research is not completely unbiased (I think it wasn’t conducted by the independent parties). So the answer is, no it’s not a must. I would also add that once you use something as potent as retinol you want to keep other ingredients simple. I added bisabolol as it reduces inflammation and ceramides (but there’s no legitimate research).
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Here you go:
Phase INCI % A Aqua 71.30% A Tetrasodium EDTA 0.20% A Niacinamide 2.00% A Glycerine 2.00% A Ceramide and
cholesterol2.00% A Betaine 2.00% A Butylene Glycol 3.00% B Octyldodecanol 5.00% B Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides 4.00% B Dimethicone fluid 3.00% B Tocopherol 0.50% B BHT 0.10% B Sepimax Zen 0.50% B Aristoflex AVC 1.25% B Bisabolol 0.20% B Germall Powder 0.20% C Retinol 2.50% - You can buy all of it either from lotioncrafter or makingcosmetics.
- There is no need to have both Aristoflex AVC and Sepimax Zen, you can have just Aristoflex (but then keep oils at 5%) or just Zen, or you can use one of many other polymeric acrylic acid derived emulsifiers that are sold on lotioncrafter or makingcosmetics (Sepinov EMT 10 is very nice, many people like Sepiplus 400 (I don’t), GelMaker EMU, GelMaker Rheo, there are many).
- The betaine is a humectant (it’s not CAPB)
- You don’t need to use Octyldodecanol or Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides specifically, just choose something light (again plenty of esters on makingcosmetics)
- Choice of preservative is due to the form of retinol. I use liposomes made of lecithin and I read that lecithin affects efficacy of paraben, so I used paraben free (but effective) preservative.
- You want to make sure you have antioxidants, because retinol oxidises.
Feel free to use this as an example. -
No, there’s absolutely no need to make it w/o! I am talking about light o/w gel with light esters. I suggest emulsifier like Sepinov or aristoflex and something like caprylic capric triglycerides for the oil phase. I will find my formula and share it in a bit.
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Of course oil will make everything slippery. That’s why it needs to be mixed with an emulsifier. It turns into milky emulsion when added to water. This way it can be rinsed off with warm water. You don’t even need to wash the bathtub after it. Otherwise you will have a greasy soup in a bathtub
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All veg oils are more or less polar. So you can mix them all but don’t add mineral oil, which is a hydrocarbon. Hydrocarbons are non-polar.
The oil will still float on the top of water though. With excluding mineral oil you will only solve the separation issue.
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Adding to the above, you want 15% of active surfactant in shampoo. To calculate active surfactant use MS Excel, or this site https://makingskincare.com/surfactant-calculator/
Don’t start with sulfate-free surfactants (they require a lot of experience) but master the classics (SLES/CAPB shampoo):
INCI % Aqua 53.6% Disodium EDTA 0.2% Germall Plus
powder0.2% SLES (27%) 30.0% PEG-7 Glyceryl
Cocoate1.0% Cocamidopropyl
Betaine15.0% NaCl qs Citric Acid qs Just follow the order (CAPB is added in the end!) add and mix. Ones it works, you can start playing with polyquats, extracts, hydrolysed proteins, fragrance, colour, in other words, make it “yours”.
Your next step is to start analysing your favourite products in the market and reverse engineer them (maybe make it sulfate-free if you wish).
To see ingredient lists use https://incidecoder.com/ -
Hello All,
An update for those who will be looking up this topic. Polysorbate 80 mixes well with any ester with very high polarity. Not medium but high. Examples: C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate (as above), Octyldodecanol, Caprylic Capric Triglycerides. Works wonders as oil makeup remover (poly 80 is quite gentle on eyes, and this type of product dissolves waterproof mascara) or blooming bath oil (milky emulsion is created when added to the bathtub, oil doesn’t float on the top).
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Terrible idea to be honest. Hair serum and bath oil are two very different products and should be made of different materials.
Hair serums are mostly made of silicones and oil is added at a tiny percentage for claims.
Bath oil should include polar esters and an emulsifier, otherwise, instead of milky emulsion, you will have oil floating in your bathtub like in a soup.
Or you can use literally any oil and market it as 2 in 1. This is going to be a bad product but there is no legal definition of what constitutes a hair serum or bath oil. The only requirement in this case is to mix oils with similar polarity because as Fekher mentioned above if you mix vegetable oil and mineral oil it will separate into two phases.
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It is a nice combination overall, but you have a bit too much of everything.
Regarding BHT, it’s oil soluble. I am not sure why you decided to make this formula water-based, but if it’s not an absolute must, I would suggest making an emulsion. You can still make it light and non-greasy if you use light esters and polymeric emulsifiers. It will be more aesthetically pleasing to use. You would need to exclude sodium lactate then. What materials do you have access to? Can you order from lotioncrafter or makingcosmetics?