ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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And before even starting define ‘natural’
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1) ‘Natural’ shampoo is made with ‘natural’ surfactants. 2) Tocopherol is not a preservative! 3) For ‘natural’ surfactants you need a thicker, glycerine is not a thickener.
Take a natural shampoo and look at ingredients list to have an idea what are they made of. -
Type jojoba oil on Amazon. Why jojoba?
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I was considering hair straightening and read about options. Customer reviews say that the effect of cysteine is minimum compared to keratin treatment and isn’t worth the money.
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I use a hot process. Aristoflex is added to the oil phase. The oil phase also contains glyceryl stearate and PEG 100, cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, oils and silicones. Again the same ingredients and method works for Sepinov EMT. Aristoflex tends to form air bubbles even when aquanous gel is prepared with minimum mixing.
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@DrAndrewWorthen is there anything that can be done post-process without special equipment ?
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@mikethair I agree about more pleasant fragrance sensation especially if you are not Dior and don’t have a signature fragrance developed for your products, but the standards applied to wash off products and leave on products are different. I think most of comments here were made with leave on products in mind.
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@Bill_Toge I think it is driven by the same ‘fast thinking’ system that makes people overestimate the risk of flying. People think that risk of getting cancer from parabens/PEGs/silicones is higher than risk of getting poisoned by cyanide in apricot seeds (some even believe it’s extract has health benefits). Also, polyethylene sounds like a plastic bag and silicone sounds like a ‘rubber’ used to seal shower.
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@Microformulation thank you for links. They confirmed what I read in another source (6% is the maximum for Niacinamide). I absolutely agree that skin needs more than one ingredient. Regarding PEG-8, I just explained where my questions are coming from (analyzing ingredients and trying to understand the purpose of adding them to a particular product). I am not a chemist as I mentioned before, but what I understand is that concern with PEGs is that they are penetration enhancers and can have impurities (I use water soluble shea butter and PEG emulsifiers and don’t share chemophobia). Again would like to emphasize that I appreciate your detailed answers.
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@Microformulation the UK is not different. Natural/Vegan/Gluten-free/Sulfates free/Parabens free/Cruelty free products rule the market. I especially ‘love’ claims of one well known UK brand that they don’t test on animals. Regarding EO, as I mentioned before it’s much easier for the beginners to use EO, because it is hard to get good synthetic fragrances, so probably that’s the driver. I was careful with EOs before but after reading the article that Perry shared above I will go ‘fragrance free’
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@Belassi I have the same experience with a shower gel and lavender EO (also 0.5%). I assumed that I did something wrong with my formula but when I made it without EO it didn’t change viscosity.
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@Microformulation thank you very much for your detailed answer. I understand your point. The main way of learning for me is analyzing ingredients lists of sucessful commercial products. One of examples where I noticed an attempt to increase penetration (not by using silicones but DMI) is Niacinamide serum made by The Ordinary. It contains 10% of Niacinamide, sodium hyaluronate, DMI and polyacrylate crosspolimer 6, (the remaining ingredients are below 1% I believe). They also added DMI to 2% salicylic acid formula (pH is 6, so it isn’t a peeling) and a couple of others. Regarding silicones I saw PEG-8 in Paula’s choice peptides booster. I understand that peptides don’t do much and PEG-8 in that case is a texture enhancer. But what is about pairing 10% of Niacinamide with DMI? Maybe I understood it wrong and DMI has some other function in that formula?
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@Microformulation, I was thinking about your comment and I have one question. Hope you don’t mind answering. In case if we are dealing with the effective levels of researched ingredients which makes it OTC drug (disclaimer, I am not doing it. I am afraid even approaching retinol at this stage), would the addition of silicones to such product decrease its efficacy (I am not using word penetration!)? To make my question more precise, let’s say that silicone is dimethicone 500 and the active ingredient is 10% of niacinamide. Thank you.
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Hi @Zinc, I agree that the only way to learn it is through trial and error. However, the concentration of retinol is not very high. I would advise checking the pH of your lactic acid moisturizer. pH plays a large part in determining the potency of the AHA. AHAs need pH <4 (I think 3.75) to be active. Most of the commercial products are neutralized and I would not be surprised if your moisturizer is >5. That would actually mean that the acid is effective and is only added for a marketing claim. If my assumption is correct, you can use them together (not sure that acid would do much though). Use sunscreen. Both of the products increase sensitivity to the sun.
I tried a product with 10% lactic acid at a pH of 6. It was drastically different from the same concentration at pH <4. The latter tingled so much that I was not able to leave it on my skin (my skin is not sensitive at all). So if your moisturizer is “gentle”, I am afraid it’s not working.
https://www.truthinaging.com/review/glycolic-acid-and-ph-levels-getting-the-balance-right
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Thank you @Sibech !
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Ok, I understand the point now. Thank you for clarification @Microformulation
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Thank you @Perry!
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Thank you @Microformulation. Don’t worry I absolutely don’t feel attacked, and I appreciate your answers a lot!. Just one question. I understand that all these algae extracts and not so well researched peptides are marketing claims. But what about researched ingredients, such as LAA (and some of its derivatives), Niacinamide, Retinol? Salicylic acid at the end of the day. It works in pores, so it “penetrates”? Probably I am missing something but I listened to most (if not all) of @Perry ‘s podcasts before I formed my opinion (additionally to reading research papers, most of which I started questioning now). And I came to the conclusion that above-mentioned ingredients should work. I am probably missing something.
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I tried to look at fragrances but most of them don’t have INCI name and not consistent from supplier to supplier, so it’s very difficult to order them online. You have no idea what you are going to get and have to rely on the supplier ‘s statement that “it smells like an orange”. I guess big companies must have a separate department that develops fragrances that they use in skincare.
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Hi @ChemicalPyros,
So, your point is that we can’t look at them as a group the same way we look at silicones and parabens?
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@rkaufman6 I would be careful with soybean oil. It is rated 5 out of 5 on a comedogenic rating scale.
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Makingcosmetics has two encapsulated retinol products:
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Vitamin-A-Liposomes-retinol_p_1222.html
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Vitamin-A-Microcaps-retinol_p_320.htmlThey should have a different concentration. For those in the UK, makingcosmetics sell it through Amazon.
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Regarding spreadability, it’s clearly due to amounts of stearic acid and cetyl alcohol. Try to reduce stearic to 2% max. Or don’t use
it at all. 2-3% of cetyl and 0.2% of carbomer should improve spreadability. -
Also, regarding alcohol, I guess people don’t distinguish between “irritating” and “drying”. Essential oils are not drying but some of them are irritating (or phototoxic) in a long run (correct me if I am wrong).
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Thank you for the link @Perry.
@Microformulation, I agree regarding the performance of “natural” products. As per my limited experience, the more “natural” it is the worse is the application. The only way to get the luxury feel of “$300 moisturiser” is to add “synthetic” polymers (Sepinov EMT, Aristoflex, Seppiplus 400 etc.). I don’t think it is possible to get the feel of “Chanel Sublimage” using conventional emulsifiers and thickeners (Glyceryl Stearate, PEG 100, Cetyl alcohol etc.). The only brand (that I know) who manage produce expensive and “natural” product is Omorovicza. They don’t use silicones, polymers and parabens, but they still use not so “natural” conventional emulsifiers. And the products are very liquid. Please let me know if you disagree on polymers.