[ngarayeva001]

@O12 post the formula with %. It’s impossible to tell what’s wrong with your product without details.

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang the beauty of this profession (for me it’s a hobby) is that you can look at the ingredients list and copy $450 moisturizer. Even more, you can make it better. It took me 5 months and more than 30 attempts to copy Chanel Sublimage but it was the most satisfying thing I did.

Now, regarding ‘chemicals’ I agree with @Microformulation. Everything is a chemical. Look at baby products. They use petrolatum. For babies! Why don’t they use ‘natural’ oils for little babies? If you understand the reason I hope you get rid of your chemophobia. Look what La Roche Posay use for irritated skin and skin with eczema. I listed Chanel Sublimage as the fist product because you like vegetable oil. Sublimage is loaded with ‘natural oils’ it has 6 or 7 (for marketing only!) Use it as a benchmark if you want to go ‘natural’. It’s as natural as you can get. Or stick to formulas made of organic olive oil, stearic acid, bees wax and deionised water. Don’t preserve it and it will have a shelf life of a week. And don’t expect it to have a nice texture.

[ngarayeva001]

If you don’t know what products to try I can give you a list of products with supreme texture: chanel sublimage, dior prestige la creme, SK-II RNA, creme de La Mer, Sisley black rose (aging skin). Have a look at la roche posay Effaclar M and Clinique Pep Start Hydroblur for oily skin. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang I can help you with the starting point. Go to any shopping mall that sells skincare. Try products on your hand (to understand  whether you like the texture) first. Try to get as many samples as you can (to compare with what you make). Figure out what do you like. Then go to beautypedia.com find the products you liked the most and check ingredients lists. See what oils do they use. I can predict that you will notice that the majority use: shea butter, jojoba oil, squalane, camelia chinesis oil (also triglycerides). Many would also use petrolatum. There are good reasons why big companies use those oils. You will see slightly different mix for body products (almond, cocoa, coconut). 

[ngarayeva001]

The INCI is Sodium Carbomer

[ngarayeva001]

Yes, it’s a product sold by lotioncrafter. Start from 0.1% and add until you reach desired viscosity @Spadirect

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang the reason why I question coconut oil is that it’s highly comedogenic. Not all skin types can tolerate it. Oils don’t do much, their main purpose is to serve as an emollient. You will not get acne treatments benefits from it but can cause problems if select a wrong one. Research what type of oils big companies (Chanel, Dior, La Prairie, La Mer, Clarins, Clinique etc.) use for face products. You will not see coconut oil there.

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang are you going to use coconut oil on face? Also the conversation wasn’t about the stability it was about efficacy if I am not mistaken. You can reduce oxidation by adding vitamin E. But the fact it’s from a good supplier won’t make it reduce wrinkles.

[ngarayeva001]

I think sodium carbomer would be a good option since your formula isn’t finalized and it will allow you to control viscosity. Check lotioncrafter. The great thing about it you can add 0.1% if you don’t like the result add 0.1% more etc. it can be added in the end of formulation.  @Spadirect

[ngarayeva001]

@Perry I read so much about hydroquinone and information is so controdictory! If remember correctly, you were comparing skin lighteners such as kojic acid and alpha-arbutin with it and said that nothing is as effective as hydroquinone. Is it the concentration that makes products dangerous?

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Microformulation, that what I was thinking. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Veggi01 you said you skin is dry and you have acne. What it tells me, is that your skin is not dry. It’s dehydrated. Oil will not help dehydrated skin, your skin needs humectants not pure oil. But it will be much better if you go to a dermatologist first because dehydrated skin is made by wrong skin care routine. Sorry to say it, but jojoba oil (as well as any other oil) will not help you. You will only make it worse.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation unfortunately for me, I don’t have a proper mixer. I am looking up cheap options now. In fact bubbles are always a problem, aristoflex is just much worse that other polymers.

[ngarayeva001]

I would like to add that you can’t get a consistent result with natural products. Using rosehip oil as an example, I ordered it from different suppliers and it was very different (color, emolliency, viscosity). I understand that even synthetic materials can vary from supplier to supplier, but natural are much worse.

[ngarayeva001]

@ZivBA, thank you. Do you hydrate it first or add as a powder? If the latter, how do you mix it?

[ngarayeva001]

I think that the concentration of active ingredients in oils is too low even if you apply pure oil on your skin. You can use it as a marketing claim if you want. 

[ngarayeva001]

@EVchem, I am not sure you can use it in a hot process. I used it in a cold process myself (AHA peel) and saw many products with it that were clearly made using the cold process. If you want to see commercial products made with it go to beautypedia and type the INCI.

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtang the claims about rosehip oil come from the fact that it actually contains some amount of tretinoin, however, the concentration is so low, that I don’t think it will do anything for acne or wrinkles. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad oil. It is very emollient and can give a very beautiful color to your lotion (it contains betacarotene). It is great for dry skin in general. Grape seed oil is lighter and good for normal and combination skin. Contains some Vitamin E. But again I don’t think they do anything serious. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Spadirect it really depends on the texture you would like to achieve and what are the other ingredients. Some extracts can decrease viscocity. If you insist on pH 5.5 #(1) might be not the best option as it has to be  neutralised. Do you have an ingredients list?

[ngarayeva001]

@EVchem lotioncrafter sells it in the US under name Sepimax Zen. There’s also a supplier in the UK. Let me know if you are in the UK or Europe and I will look it up. Try to search Sepimax Zen. If you want to see formulations with it, check The Ordinary brand. They use it a lot. It really can hold a lot of actives! If you get it just remember to leave it for several hours (it will hydrate by itself) and then just stirr manually. It tends to bubble on a high speed.

[ngarayeva001]

@Colorfuljulie I am trying to replicate Ogx conditioner (kukui oil)

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you very much @Perry!

[ngarayeva001]

The huge drawback of all listed above is that they are extremely sensitive to electrolytes, pH (even Sepiplus 400, don’t believe what the producer says) and active ingredients. If you add ceramides or peptides at a quantity more than “just for claims” viscosity will be destroyed. If you need something that will tolerate huge amounts of active ingredients extremely low pH, high amount of electrolytes then
(6) Polyacrylate Crosspolymer-6. It tolerates pH of 2. Will take several hours to hydrate. Can’t comment on how much because there is a very fine line between smooth and sticky. Rather cheap.
Again for the body product, you probably would like #(1). Not expensive, you don’t need much, and most of the commercial products I saw use either that one or regular carbomer. It will take some time to learn how to work with it because you don’t see the result until you neutralise it.

[ngarayeva001]

(5) Polyacrylate 13/Polyisobutene/Polysorbate 20 aka Sepiplus 400. It is liquid, can be added at the end of the formulation, so you can control the result. Gives extremely smooth and “silicony” feel. Don’t add extra silicones if use it, or it would feel as a film. I can’t comment on how much. It is highly dependent on other ingredients. Works synergistically with other polymers.

[ngarayeva001]

@Spadirect there are so many ways depending on what result you want to get. I would say 
(1) C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer is a very common one. I prefer the one made by makingcosmetics. It’s self-wetting and needs 3 minutes to hydrate. I tried other brands and it was impossible to mix it. It gives a very smooth feel and you need not more than 0.1%. What is not perfect about it, it vary by the supplier (same INCI different results) and requires neutralisation. Another one I absolutely love is

(2) Sodium Carbomer. It is a preneutralised carbomer, which means you totally control the thickness! You add it to the final product and mix on a high speed. I would say 0.1 to 0.3% is enough (depends on your emulsifiers and thickeners). What is not perfect about it, your product should include silicones. It is not as smooth as C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer. My favorite is 

(3) Hydroxyethyl Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer. It is an emulsifier and a thickener (well it is a polymer that it creates pseudo-emulsion but let’s say it is an emulsifier). Very smooth luxury feel (used a lot by luxury brands), improves stability can be used alone to make a gel body lotion. Can be used in a hot process and cold process. What is not perfect about it? I would say it’s the best but maybe a bit expensive for a body product. You need 1.5-2% if its the only emulsifyer and from 0.3 to 0.75% with other emulsifiers and thickeners. There is also 

(4) Ammonium Acryloyldimethyltaurate/VP Copolymer. Similar to (3) but gives a lighter and fresher feel (#3 feels more luxurious). I like many things about it except for air bubbles. I assume you need a professional mixer to work with it.