[ngarayeva001]

I don’t think that age has anything to do with it. An extend of sun exposure does. What do you mean by skin type? If dry/normal/oily then no.

[ngarayeva001]

Hydroquinone. I am not sure that it will work in 7 days. And its use is restricted in many countries.

[ngarayeva001]

@Doreen
I agree nothing can beat Zen. By the way! The Ordinary used Zen in all their formulations with low pH or high electrolites (AHA/BHA peel, Salicylic 2%, Lactic 10% etc). They changed it to sodium hyaluronate crosspolymer recently. Do you know what is it? I am very curious because this must be a polymer similar to Zen (but less sticky I suspect).

[ngarayeva001]

I would not say so. It a powerful ingredient that can be very effective. However it is for professionals only. I wouldn’t formulate with it even if I could get it.

[ngarayeva001]

Hydroquinone is very strong and can cause hyperpigmentation if overused. It’s the most effective skin lightener and can make complexion several shades lighter. Forbidden in some countries. I know that products will hydroquinone are only available by prescription in the UK. 

[ngarayeva001]

Well, where to start… It is a derivative of hydroquinone. Used for skin lightening. Blocks epidermal melanin synthesis. Water soluble (even in cold water without much stirring). Obviously less effective than hydroquinone but with less side effects. Considered to be more effective than beta-arbutin. Works pretty well with other skin lighteners. Suppliers say it’s effective from 0.2 to 2% (I use 2%). Some researches show that it is more effective for caucasian rather than ethnic skin. It will not give instant results (some difference can be seen after 2 months). The pH range 3.5-6.5.  I personally use it in water based serums with other skin lighteners such as vitamin C derivatives, niacinamide, NAG etc. 

[ngarayeva001]

@megcapati So, I got curious and googled ASCORBYL METHYLSILANOL PECTINATE. I couldn’t find any paper that prooves it’s efficiency. Maybe you want to consider another derivative? If so, I would say MAP and Tetrahexydecyl Ascorbate. I heard that Ethyl Ascorbic Acid is great, but I have never worked with it, because it’s not sold in small quantities.
However if your goal is just to replicate the product try this:

- 0.2% of tetrasoudium EDTA (not disodium, if you want clear product)
- 1% of niacinamide
- 1% of MAP (just for claims, it won’t do anything)
- either 0.5% of carbomer (ultrez 20 or 30) or 0.3% of C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer;
- 2% of propanediol or butylene glycol (you can add glycerin but not Sodium PCA or Sodium Lactate!);
- TEA qs to bring the pH to 7; 
- 0.1% of perfume
- 0.4% of poly 20 or PEG-40 HCO (poly 80 foams, just compare it with poly 20 and you will see it)
- 1% of a preservative of your choice. 

I don’t see any reason to add tocopheryl acetate. If you want to do it, just up your solubilizer.

[ngarayeva001]

@Doreen, as per my experience, the only polymer that actually tolerates electrolytes is Sepimax Zen. Ultrez 30 works ok without electolytes.

[ngarayeva001]

Propanediol and propylene glycol are good solvents for salicylic acid. I disagree that cream base is not good for salicylic acid. La Roche Posay uses a combination of salicylic acid and niacinamide in their Effaclar line for a blemish prone skin. And it’s rather effective although they use concentrations of SA below 1%.  SA will act as a peel at 2% if you keep the pH low. If you want to use it as a peel, serum like formula would work better.

[ngarayeva001]

CAPB contains salts, so, I am not sure you need 2% of NaCl. It sounds a bit high to me. Regarding foam booster, do you have an access to decyl glycoside? I think it’s a good foam booster and you don’t need much. Another question, what is total percentage of surfactant? 

[ngarayeva001]

I have not worked with that derivative. It’s not very common one. At least I have not seen it in products. Check with your supplier if it should be yellow, but as a general rule yellow vitamin C is oxidized vitamin c. LAA in water oxidizes in weeks, MAP is also prone to oxidation though more stable than LAA.

[ngarayeva001]

If a serum with vitamin c is yellow it’s place is in the trash bin. It is a poorly formulated product with LAA where l-ascorbic acid turned to dehydroascorbic acid (prooxidant).  Raw materials  that give matt finish: silica, or some kind of dimethicone polymer. I would not add it to a serum.

[ngarayeva001]

Sodium PCA can cause lose of viscocity for some polymers.

[ngarayeva001]

Reduce oil to 0.5%. You might get the texture you want this way. I have a reverse problem. I don’t want slimy texture.

[ngarayeva001]

Carbomer isn’t sticky if you use the right amount Consider adding PEG-8 Dimethicone.  It will improve the sensory.

[ngarayeva001]

I guess you are talking about solvents. Water is the most common solvent. Propylene Glycol and Ethanol are also solvents. I don’t think aloe needs anything but water to be honest.

[ngarayeva001]

PEG-8 Dimethicone won’t give you matt look. Remove it. Also, do you really need tocopherol acetate? I have not tried it but I can predict it’s foaming. Both poly-80 and peg-8 are foaming during application. Not very desirable effect for a serum. 

[ngarayeva001]

I think it’s not the texture what ladies actually  like but the feel after the product is washed off. As if there’s a ‘conditioning’ residue on hair. Have you tried cetrimonium chloride?

[ngarayeva001]

There always will be a market for soap. Many  people love that squeaky feel. They have a feeling that such a product cleanses better. I have not used soap on my hands for years (and on my face for more than 10 years). Maybe they are better now.

[ngarayeva001]

I didn’t know it needs solubilisers. Do you mean something like polysorbate20?

[ngarayeva001]

@chemistgr1, I can suggest you to have a look at this product (as a referrence)

https://www.avalonorganics.com/en/products/bath-and-body/hand-soap/lavender-glycerin-hand-soap/

It is marketed as organic and parabens free. The LOI:

Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice(1), Aqua (Water), Coco-Glucoside, Glycerin, Sodium Laurylglucosides Hydroxypropylsulfonate, Heptyl Glucoside, Decyl Glucoside, Xanthan Gum, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Oil, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Calendula Officinalis Flower Extract(1), Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract(1), Chenopodium Quinoa Seed(1), Lavendula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower/Leaf/Stem Extract(1), Tocopheryl Acetate, Bisabolol, Citric Acid, Inulin(1), Sodium Chloride, Alcohol(1), Benzyl Alcohol, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Coumarin, Limonene, Linalool

[ngarayeva001]

I have a lot of questions to this article! Any real scientific evidence or just ‘studies shown’? Skin doesn’t like alkaline products. I don’t understand why removing acid mantle in the first place and then waiting for it to restore itself. Isn’t it easier not stripping it off? Is high concentration of SLS (not mixed with other surfactants) more irritating than a soap? Probably.  But no one uses products containing only SLS. Also irritation isn’t only about the pH, it’s about micelles size, type of surfactant, concentration of surfactant etc. And science aside, nothing would persuade me as a user that gentle amphoteric cleanser is worse than a soap.

[ngarayeva001]

You can formulate a good conditioner without any oil at all. You need cationic emulsifiers (behentrimonium chloride, btms-50) and conditioning agents (centrimonium chloride, polyquat-7 polyquat-10 etc). What is the function of polysorbate 80 in your formula?

[ngarayeva001]

Just leave it to hydrate. Carbomers do not like a lot of mixing.

[ngarayeva001]

Suppliers recommend using disodium EDTA in lower pH products and products where clarity is not important. I mostly see it in lotions. Tetrasodium EDTA is recommended for surfactant products and clear gels. I have not seen trisodium a lot though.  But my understanding is that the difference isn’t crucial.