mikethair
Forum Replies Created
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“Store the paste undiluted, if possible, to avoid micro problems.”
Micro-organisms should not be a problem…….the pH takes care of that. We have been challenge testing for years, and always a 99.999% kill for these liquids.
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In our vat, the saponification process firstly produces a what could be described as a paste, which usually sits in the vat overnight, then next morning we mix and dilute with water, and later that day via a tap in the base of the vat, into jerrycans for storage. Messing around with digging a paste out of the vat would not be so efficient in our view.
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We produce quite a lot of liquid soap made from various recipes of saponified oils. What we have learnt, in response to your questions, is as follows:
After we make the base paste, is it best practice to store it for a while before diluting it with water?We do not produce a paste, and prefer to produce in liquid form (our batches are around 75 Kg. In liquid form we find it easier to handle and store.
Or is it best to store the *diluted* paste in storage?
We store in liquid form in large plastic, stackable jerrycans. We find it easier to manage in liquid form.
Either way, how long is it recommended to wait before we mix in the final ingredients (essential oils, guar gum, blah blah)?
No scientific basis for this, but we like to wait at least two weeks. The liquid has cleared after this period, and just seems to be “milder” with slightly lower pH
*How* should we store the paste (or diluted paste)? In plastic pails with sealed lids, perhaps? Anything I should know about recommended storage temperatures?
As mentioned above, for ease of handling we use large jerrycans, and in liquid form. We store at around 25 C in temperature controlled room (we are in the tropics where ambient temp around 30+ C.
We usually like to keep a good stock of the liquid base as t turns over very quickly, and we can respond to orders in short time rather than waiting two weeks for “curing.”
OK, hope the above is helpful,
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We use reverse osmosis water supplied in 18 L containers from a drinking water company. We are only a small company with a capacity of 10,000 bars/month of cold-process soap, and we find that treated water provides us with product consistency. Would not be guaranteed with tap water.
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Thanks for the responses…..interesting how times change.
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Yes, we record humidity on our production sheets, and of course in our temperature/humidity controlled cure room.
In our case, being in a tropical climate, the humidity in our soap pouring/moulding area stays very constant, and therefore not a variable that will have much impact on our soap pouring/moulding. But nevertheless, in our opinion, still an important variable to monitor for cold process soap.
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Not quite sure of the point of your question. For our cold process soap production, we have a standard production sheet that identified the unique Lot # and data recorded on this sheet includes the Lot # of all ingredients used etc plus room temperature, mixing times, and trace times, unmoulding date/time, and details of cure start and finish times.
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I would not recommend using only coconut oil, and as you have started to do, it is necessary to experiment with different oil blends.
A good starting point is to get yourself a copy of “Making Natural Liquid Soaps” by Catherine Failor.
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We are a small brand using amber bottles and some jars. A critical consideration for us was how the packaging projected our brand messaging. Tubes just didn’t hit the mark based on our own assessments and those coming out of our customer feedback.
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We have just done some test moulds of a cold process soap with a high percentage of olive oil using Sodium Lactate (60%) at 1%, 2.5% and 4%. We will have an initial idea of the results in about 30 days after curing. Based on the trace data and initial appearance of the bars as they went into the curing room, the 2.5% may be the way to go, but will wait for the results from our testers after curing before making a decision.
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Why this recycled soap flakes of ours is so popular (we can never keep up with demand) is that it appeals to those with sensitive skin and allergies to regular soap powder. It defeats the purpose if we start adding powder detergent.
You can see a photo and read more about this product here: http://indochinenatural.com/shop/eco-friendly-washing-powder-400-grams/
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Hello @Sheng …..in response to your queries:
- how do you dry? do u put it in oven set at 110C?
We just leave it in our tem/humidity controlled soap cure room for a few weeks.
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you granulates? do you put on hammermill? or can we run it in plodder
machine once dried?Some improvements required here, but we put it through something like a mincing machine, and then into an electric blender. Not the best, but it works OK, and could be improved.
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What we do is put our offcuts through an extended cure period to make sure they are dry, and then put into a blending machine to make into a granule form. These are sold as a washing powder for clothes, and sells VERY VERY well…….we are basically unable to keep up with demand.
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@Bill_Toge ……nice marketing angle…..could sell this shampoo as a top-to-toe and do your dishes at the same time.
I see you do hair products……we sell a lot of this shampoo to a hair salon in Singapore who claim it is one of the best they have come across. Will ask them if they have tried it on their dishes in the lunch room or cafe next door.
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@Belassi …..not sure where your quote has come from, but has not been our experience. Most people rinse their thoroughly after shampooing, and none of our customers (our production capacity is 10,000 x 250 mL bottles/month) have reported calcium salt precipitates plus opaque/tangled hair.
If the customer demand wasn’t there, we wouldn’t produce this shampoo, its that simple. Generally we are on the back foot trying to keep up with demand. One point though, this shampoo does not suit all hair types, but that proably applies to any shampoo.
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@BartJ is there any reason you would conclude “You know that high pH of a soap bar is unsuitable for hair” ?
We have been producing various recipes of liquid soap for a few years under our own label and for OEM customers that we call a “shampoo,” and it is popular with consumers. The pH of these products ranges from 9.5 to 10.0.
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Good question…..I’m at the same stage, but can only find liquid sodiuym lactate. What I intent to do is give the liquid a try (it is 60%), making some adjustments to the water content of our soap recipe, and evaluate the effect. If it is what we are looking for, will then come back to the question of liquid or solid.
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Why not add the sodium lactate to your NaOH solution after it has cooled?
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In my opinion and experience as a professional soap maker, soap made using saponified oils/butters could not achieve a pH of 4.5 - 5.5.
My approach would be to ask the client the parameters for defining “natural” soap, perhaps they are not thinking about traditional cold-process soap? Perhaps some Angel Dusting and Greenwashing a SYNDET with a pH of 5 would keep them happy?
Also, ask why the need to be the same pH as skin. Fact of the matter is that soap is more effective as a cleanser at a higher pH, which is in effect the function of soap. The skin can recover back to normal pH fairly quickly without any ill-effects.
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We do a lot of these liquid soaps in 70 Kg batches using the Waring equipment you have described. Agree exactly with what Bobzchemist has suggested. We keep a lot of data on times etc on each batch sheet, which helps to get these mixers calibrated. Once sorted, it all becomes routine.
BTW, we use ours at a fairly high speed, and never found foaming an issue if the blade is kept below the surface.
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It seems that in tight economies many bottle suppliers are rationalising their stock and reducing the number of lines they carry. We have been battling this challenge for some time, and finally decided to bite the bullet and import 50,000 bottles from a manufacturer China. As the lead time is 6-8 weeks, challenge now is determine exactly when we should re-order. Oh, and did I mention the storage space required….another challenge. But in the end these challenges are insignificant to the supply issues we were experiencing previously.
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I haven’t noticed the 1% of product revenue, but did note the US$500.00 registration fee. Will look more closely.
Most of these certification schemes are money grabbing. While perhaps from a strictly scientific standpoint the Verified stamp “provides nothing of real value,’ the real value is how well this is picked up by consumers and influences purchasing decisions. If it becomes a significant determinant in purchase decisions, then perhaps 1% royalty may be good value.
Will certainly be worth monitoring.
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@Belassi makes some good points. We produce a lot of liquid soaps and our experience is:
1. It was an absolute pain to make it.
Yes, but with practice and the right equipment the “pain” can be minimised.2. It was more drying to the skin. Superfatting results in a cloudy soap, visually unattractive.
Not the case in our experience.3. The shelf life was not as good.
Not our experience.4. The synthetic (based on a blend) was easy to make cold - no time spent heating or cooling.
Yes, not that we have any experience with synthetics.5. The synthetic has better foam.
Yes, probably.6. The synthetic has far better sensorials.
Many of our customers think otherwise.7. The synthetic doesn’t dry the skin.
Not our experience or that of our customers.8. The synthetic tolerates many more fragrances without clouding.
Yes.9. The synthetic is much cheaper to make.
Absolutely.Then I guess this begs the question, why do we bother? We believe there is a niche market for these products, plus, we like making these.
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We produce a lot of liquid soaps using various combinations of saponified oils, and none are drying to the skin. The issue largely is not so much the oils used (although it is a factor), but the recipe, and we tend to superfat slightly to help in producing something that is not drying to the skin.
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Old chemistry and very few produce products this way……..we produce liquid body/face washes using saponified oils which are basically “self-preserving.” Always Challenge Tested and come up with top results, and these fit your description of “a product containing either all oils or oils and water be preservative free.”