[mikethair]

Yes, @Chemist77, I thought so as well, and why I raise the question. With great respect @Belassi, the wording “to restore depleted energy reserves > helps restore depleted energy reserves” sounds like a claim to me, whereas in the text itself the wording is a bit more subtle.

I’m not sure if the text is ethical, and if it actually breaks and acceptable codes.

[mikethair]

@Bobzchemist   for our products.

[mikethair]

Thanks @johnb, but someone I do not think this answers my simple question….a standard industry format for Product Specification Sheets?

[mikethair]

The EWG has its place, but must be read with some caution.

[mikethair]

@Belassi makes a good point, and having started a business and now running since 2006 I would also suggest that you have a good look at your branding and brand message. If you are going to be noticed, it is important to differentiate your brand in this very crowded  marketplace.

[mikethair]

Thanks @Bill_Toge …..point very well taken, and probably a mindset that I need to adopt. Yes, an extreme example, but it makes a valid point.

Thanks.

[mikethair]

OK Bill, you don’t think that the CoAs (that include microbial counts) associated with the bottled drinking water are inadequate, and that we need to test ourselves?  Or do you mean the CoAs provided with the water are OK?

And what is the point of measuring conductivity within the context I have described here?

“Sterilisation”……we are not producing sterile products. The liquid and solid soaps via saponification are not subject to microbial contamination due to their high pH. Most cosmetics compliance systems around the world do not require microbial testing of these types of products.

What I may do is test our tap water and see if it is contaminated.

[mikethair]

Looks good. However, I always like to have details of ingredients for each product as this may drive some consumer buying decisions. Also, from your website I’m not sure of your unique selling point.

Good luck !!!

[mikethair]

Why not produce a test batch and send it to a lab for Challenge Testing, and then do a Stability Test (start with rapid, then set up real time test).

[mikethair]

Also a great fan of Ohaus. We have a number of their scales each suited to a particular task. Over many years have found them reliable, robust, and value for money.

For very basic work for example, up to 4,000g, we use the Scout Pro in both of our production facilities.

[mikethair]

We have been down this path and experimented with reducing the amount of olive oil by adding rice bran oil and coconut oil. Also added some lactic acid. The result is a vast improvement, and produced a very acceptable, longer lasting soap with a good lather.

[mikethair]

Thanks @johnb …..yes, I have approached the supplier and response as follows:

“This organic Rose Otto Hydrosol Batch 1005653  was manufactured in June 2014.  We received the stock from our supplier in April 2015.
 
That’s means by the time customer send sample to test in August 2016, sample has already been 2 years old . The failed challenge test results is not surprised but not too bad, small growth of microorganisms from 0 day to 14 days, no change after 28 days.
 
We also attach supplier’s COA of the same batch, which shows Microbiological tests”

Not all that satisfactory in my opinion, as according to labelling from the supplier, we have not yet exceeded the use-by-date.

Which brings us back to the original question…..what would be an appropriate preservative for this type of product for us to add when we repackage in our production facility?

[mikethair]

Great, thanks for the suggestions….much appreciated. Also confirms an appropriate mindset as well.

[mikethair]

We purchase a hydrosol in bulk (5L) and repackage into 100 mL. The supplier assures us that preserving is not required. To-date no issues with our Challenge Test Reports on these products, but one report has just come in with the following results:

The sample showed a log reduction of >5 and no increase from the 14 days count against Staphylococcus aureus at 28 days.
Escherichia coli and Pseudomonas aeruginosa showed a log reduction of >1 and >2 and no increase from the 14 days count at 28 days.
One(1) type of yeast and one(1) type of mould showed a log reduction of 0.04 and
-0.31 respectively which are increase from the initial count at 14 days at 28 days.

The product did not meet the criteria specified under product category 2 under USP 51 Antimicrobial Effectiveness Testing due to the increase from the initial count at 14 days for yeast and mould.

We have contacted the bulk supplier, and are waiting for their response.

This raises the question then, for us to be more certain, what would be an appropriate preservative for this type of product for us to add when we repackage in our production facility?

Thanks

[mikethair]

Hi Ameen,

Yes, I remember. Glad to know you are making progress with Western Sahara women in the refugee camps.  Well done.

[mikethair]

“Store the paste undiluted, if possible, to avoid micro problems.”

Micro-organisms should not be a problem…….the pH takes care of that. We have been challenge testing for years, and always a 99.999% kill for these liquids.

[mikethair]

In our vat, the saponification process firstly produces a what could be described as a paste, which usually sits in the vat overnight, then next morning we mix and dilute with water, and later that day via a tap in the base of the vat, into jerrycans for storage. Messing around with digging a paste out of the vat would not be so efficient in our view.

[mikethair]

We produce quite a lot of liquid soap made from various recipes of saponified oils. What we have learnt, in response to your questions, is as follows:

After we make the base paste, is it best practice to store it for a while before diluting it with water?

We do not produce a paste, and prefer to produce in liquid form (our batches are around 75 Kg. In liquid form we find it easier to handle and store.

Or is it best to store the *diluted* paste in storage?

We store in liquid form in large plastic, stackable jerrycans. We find it easier to manage in liquid form.

Either way, how long is it recommended to wait before we mix in the final ingredients (essential oils, guar gum, blah blah)?

No scientific basis for this, but we like to wait at least two weeks. The liquid has cleared after this period, and just seems to be “milder” with slightly lower pH

*How* should we store the paste (or diluted paste)? In plastic pails with sealed lids, perhaps? Anything I should know about recommended storage temperatures?

As mentioned above, for ease of handling we use large jerrycans, and in liquid form. We store at around 25 C in temperature controlled room (we are in the tropics where ambient temp around 30+ C.

We usually like to keep a good stock of the liquid base as t turns over very quickly, and we can respond to orders in short time rather than waiting two weeks for “curing.”

OK, hope the above is helpful,

[mikethair]

We use reverse osmosis water supplied in 18 L containers from a drinking water company. We are only a small company with a capacity of 10,000 bars/month of cold-process soap, and we find that treated water provides us with product consistency. Would not be guaranteed with tap water.

[mikethair]

Thanks for the responses…..interesting how times change.

[mikethair]

Yes, we record humidity on our production sheets, and of course in our temperature/humidity controlled cure room.

In our case, being in a tropical climate, the humidity in our soap pouring/moulding area stays very constant, and therefore not a variable that will have much impact on our soap pouring/moulding. But nevertheless, in our opinion, still an important variable to monitor for cold process soap.

[mikethair]

Not quite sure of the point of your question. For our cold process soap production, we have a standard production sheet  that identified the unique Lot # and data recorded on this sheet includes the Lot # of all ingredients used etc plus room temperature, mixing times, and trace times, unmoulding date/time, and details of cure start and finish times. 

[mikethair]

I would not recommend using only coconut oil, and as you have started to do, it is necessary to experiment with different oil blends.

A good starting point is to get yourself a copy of “Making Natural Liquid Soaps” by Catherine Failor.

[mikethair]

We are a  small brand using amber bottles and some jars. A critical consideration for us was how the packaging projected our brand messaging. Tubes just didn’t hit the mark based on our own assessments and those coming out of our customer feedback.

[mikethair]

We have just done some test moulds of a cold process soap with a high percentage of olive oil using Sodium Lactate (60%)  at 1%, 2.5% and 4%. We will have an initial idea of the results in about 30 days after curing.  Based on the trace data and initial appearance of the bars as they went into the curing room, the 2.5% may be the way to go, but will wait for the results from our testers after curing before making a decision.