[mikethair]

Not sure why you are using Sodium Cocoate. We use this in solid soap formulations.

For liquid shampoo we use Potassium Cocoate (saponified coconut oil).

We have zero problems with cloudiness with Potassium Cocoate . No, we do not use a preservative because the pH is around 9.0.  Challenge Testing (PET) have demonstrated that preservatives are not required.

Plus, this is backed up under ISO 29621:2017 covering finished cosmetic products. Identified products in the guideline do not require preseravtives and the application of microbiological International standards for Cosmetics commonly called “challenge test” or ISO 11930.

[mikethair]

We refuse to deal via alibaba. Instead, we buy direct from the manufacturer. It is not difficult to find these companies. Best approach is to ask others in your country for recommendations.

[mikethair]

@Docaashu, are you able to cite scientific literature indicating that “As a doctor, I know the fact alkaline pH is not good for skin. Alkaline property of soaps increase many health risks including fungal infections, eczema and psoriasis”?

[mikethair]

Doreen said:

the decision followed to use double sterilized plates (those that are also sterilized in its secundary package) instead. More pricey, but problem solved!
(Ok, these are a different brand and are plates instead of dipslides, but the medium and use are the same)

What brand and product are you referring to?

Thanks

[mikethair]

EVchem said:

  do you have access to the mikrocount combi.

What would be the point of switching to mikrocount combi?

Thanks

[mikethair]

Thanks @ozgirl    All suggestions done, and all checked out. The sample results quoted in my post are from an SGS lab.

I need to work through the distributor of Microcount dipslides here in Malaysia. Who then contact the Schulke technical people in China. The answer that came back was:

In general I think the findings are comparable and reasonable as mikrocount duo is semi-quantitative and fast. The minimum determination limit is ~10^2 cfu /ml level. That means the SGS result 350cfu/ml is also in this minimum range. 
The result is very related to the sample amount to the agar, that’s why for water testing the minimum determination is higher that high viscosity products such as solid/creams, which can be sampled more to the agar surface.

Didn’t make a lot of sense to me, given the external lab results.

Our QC Manager took the water samples for the Microcount dipslides plus SGS lab at the same time. So that eliminates a few variables.

If I am reading the results correctly, the SGS lab results are well above the ND result from the Microcount dipslides. Others (include he Schulke technical people in China) have said differently. Therefore, I’m now asking here.

[mikethair]

We saponify coconut oil to make a shampoo product. The amount of oil remaining can be controlled via the saponification reaction, or adding oil after saponification.

[mikethair]

Thanks for the input here.,….very useful !!

[mikethair]

Have the Challenge Tested the product?

[mikethair]

Experience the same. Have not found any solution.

[mikethair]

Great article, have done similar research myself. One interesting point though, and this is really old science (that’s because Im a really old guy)…. soap, body wash etc is designed to clean, and cleaning chemistry occurs better in a more acid than neutral or basic environment.

[mikethair]

We use RO water with regular in-house testing plus annual test by external lab to confirm our in-house tests.

[mikethair]

I personally wouldn’t be going too much beyond 2%. Having said that, I know of some who go well beyond 2%.

[mikethair]

We own our own GMP Certified production facility that includes two laboratories. We do a lot of our own in-house quality testing and see no need to have these labs certified.

What we do is have regular verifications of our lab results done by external, certified labs. For example, our in-house microbiol lab does the testing of our water quality. This week an internationally certified lab came in to do the tests, and we will validate our own results against the certified results from this lab. We do this on a regularly.

[mikethair]

We have two simple functional lab spaces. One is microbiol, the other physical chem.  Simple, do the necessary, and for anything else we send it out to a cerified lab, its far more cost effective.

[mikethair]

We do soap based face washes & body washes by simply saponifying various oils. Huge sellers (our brand and Private Label brands) with a lot of long-time loyal customers (13 years), and stability not an issue. pH 9-10.

You recipe look complicated.

[mikethair]

Thanks, Bill_Toge, tried this and it works OK. Appreciate your input.

[mikethair]

Have you used this method? Does it work?

[mikethair]

Managing a 100 C water jacketed tank is precarious and subject to boil overs. We prefer not to operate at these temperatures.

[mikethair]

Cheap soap is a crowded marketplace, and in my opinion a spiral down into oblivion. Doesn’t matter how cheap you go with your soap, someone will do it cheaper by accepting lower margins.

CP soap, in my opinion, is in a market space of artisan made soap  using premium ingredients. It should demand premium prices.

Re-think your brand, re-think your market positioning.

[mikethair]

This is something we do regularly. We use a 170 Litre stainless steel water jacketed stainless steel tank. We maintain the temperature at around 71 C. The saponifiaction takes the best part of one day.  A good mixer is required. The liquis soap is poured into jerry cans the next day after cooling. 

[mikethair]

VitalikButerin said:

mikethair said:

For us, stainless water jacketed tanks made in the USA, commercial mixers used in the restaurant industry.

Nice use of industrial/heavy duty  food mixers! 

Can you regulate tempt specifically using the jacketed tanks? 

Can do, electric heater with themostat. We also  monitor with thermometer. All made in the USA. We steer clear of China made equipment.

[mikethair]

For us, stainless water jacketed tanks made in the USA, commercial mixers used in the restaurant industry.

[mikethair]

We use Mikrocount duo on a regular basis withe excellent results.

https://www.schuelke.com/intl-en/products/mikrocount-duo.php

[mikethair]

I use a custom made filling machine made by Universal Filling Machine Company in the UK. It is very well engineered, precise, and hand operated. http://www.universalfilling.com

Part of the process was that I sent samples of our liquids to them for testing before they released the machine. To-date, after four years of solid use, the results have been excellent. It covers bottle sizes 30 mL to 250 mL +

Price ex-works in 2004 was £3,450.00. I’m very happy with this machine.